The Flatpicking Podcast
Hayes Griffin and Eli Gilbert discuss all things flatpicking and bluegrass guitar. Technique, Gear, Players, and more.
The Flatpicking Podcast
Flatpicking in Sweden (feat. Patrik Sundvik)
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Special Guest Patrik Lundgren joins Hayes to talk about flatpicking in Sweden, learning by ear, and much more!
Because you said everything in Sweden is more expensive. Um like um I that was like the first thing that I noticed when I was over there because I went to um oh what's the name of the guitar shop in uh Juteborg? Uh the really nice uh is it let's see number one guitar shop, maybe yes, number one guitar shop, dude. Um I went in there and I remember doing the conversion from Croner to USD in my head, and I was like, oh my god, this like this Martin D28 is like five thousand dollars, you know what I mean? Like two thousand more expensive than you would find it in the US.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was on I was on Facebook today and I saw a dude in the US that sold a used one, a D18, like a standard model, nothing fancy, you know. Yeah, and he wanted like $2,400 for it, I think. In Sweden, it's like $4,000 for a used one or three three thousand five hundred.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's uh but but like you said, the import taxes and stuff is custom fees and all lent. Yeah, that's uh uh I think one of the things that uh our buddy Magnus kind of educated me on uh when I first started going over there. Because I was asking some of my friends like why are things so expensive? And then you know, you see all the beautiful schools and roads and uh all the things that you guys have access to over there, and that's why it's expensive. Um well, I think that's as good a segue as any to say um howdy out there, folks. If you're listening to this right now, you have found your way to the flat picking podcast, and I am really excited today because I have my buddy Patrick from Flat Pick Nation over in Sweden. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's all good. Uh how how are you with your one finger?
SPEAKER_01It's it's okay, man. Today I have my uh I have two splints that I've been using. One is more low profile when I'm like practicing the guitar, and then this is kind of my like, you know, very protective one. Like nothing's gonna happen to it here. So everything's good. We're uh we're three weeks in, and uh if you've been following the podcast, you know that I'm dealing with uh or or have been dealing with a finger injury. And uh Potrick was one of the first ones that actually reached out uh because you had had some kind of hand injuries before, right? You were what was what was the story with that?
SPEAKER_00Uh I was actually just opening a corridor and my my tendon burst. So it really hurt. Yeah, so I could I could uh bend the finger, but it hurt so much that it feels felt like a knife in the finger, you know.
SPEAKER_01Uh it could you straighten it back out or could you um yeah, yeah, I could.
SPEAKER_00I could, but uh it wasn't a good idea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and and sometimes that stuff, like as I've been learning, like if you use it, it'll like recede into the hand if you like do stuff to it. So it's like they have to like get in there and like pull it back out, you know, weird stuff. How long like uh did that keep you from playing guitar?
SPEAKER_00Uh not not today, even I played with the you you saw the picture, so I played anyway with one finger.
SPEAKER_01So well, that's a good uh I guess another good point we should bring up. So man, the the this this finger injury really had me down, and and like I said, Patrick was was reaching out and and messaging me early on, but then I I I woke up to a post one day because you're you know what, six, seven hours ahead of me, right? So you you always get a jump. Yeah. So uh I woke up to a post where I saw the flat pick nation account had tagged me in this really cool one-finger version of Dixie O down. Um and uh and have you seen how many people have been taking up the challenge now, the Hayes Griffin One Finger Challenge or whatever?
SPEAKER_00I I I haven't uh counted them, but I saw uh what's his name? Uh Chapman. Yeah, Chapman Welch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I guess so a video of him so as well.
SPEAKER_01So I've counted over 12 at this point, and I think and and you know how this works because you you're nominating two people every time. So that's like two or three days, right? Like, or a week's worth of of activity. Like, um but it's gotten to the point now, Patrick, where like people that I don't even know are doing this. Yeah. That was the point. And I'm just like, because I'm I don't know. I guess like I think of this as a pretty small community, you know, like you and I like we just message back and forth on Instagram about guitar stuff and and have a good time. But then I see you post something like this, and yeah, like I said, it still blows my mind that people watch the videos and and you know know who we are and do this stuff.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, I'm in my own little bubble at home mostly and play guitar, you know. Uh, but you are actually one of the people I have met in real life, and uh two two times. Yeah. And uh I really enjoy picking with you. Uh you are yeah, I don't know. You and me fit together well when we play together, I think.
SPEAKER_01I would agree. Um, well, let's talk about that a little bit. So, when was the first time that we met in person? Uh I know, but you tell them.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it I it was in Tushoker, uh, but I don't have the year in my head.
SPEAKER_01Maybe 21 I was gonna say I think it was like the year after COVID stuff started to like happen again. So it was either one or two, twenty-one or twenty-two, yeah. Um but yeah, can you explain that festival?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's just like uh any bluegrass festival, I guess. And uh I think it's uh 30 or 40 years uh been going on, that festival. Yeah. Uh and just a regular uh like any other bluegrass festival, I guess. And uh but it's uh I had never been to US, and uh so I can't really compare it to your guys' festival. I guess you have a lot bigger festivals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but what's what's cool about Tushaucker is though it it reminds me of the small festivals that happen in my home, you know, like around the area because it's in a barn, right? Like at least it used to be. I think Magnus told me that they moved it or something this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, they they moved it now, but uh it's an even bigger barn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, see, so so we keep we're staying with the theme.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um and not and now the cat the campground now is a little bit different in a a lot better way. You actually have uh uh the camp and the festival very close together.
SPEAKER_01I remember you kind of had to drive maybe a couple kilometers last time or something.
SPEAKER_00You you can't you could take a walk, but this is like super close, so it's yeah, a lot better.
SPEAKER_01That's that's cool. Yeah. Um it so like the first time that I was there and we and we got to pick, I guess that's what I was gonna say is that it reminded me of a hometown festival in that there was a barn where the bands were playing all day. They had a sausage stand out outside, you know, you could go get a beer and like a sausage or whatever and hang out. But then there was a really uh big like parking lot scene, like you could just go there and play tunes almost the whole time, right? And not not even go to the festival, which is kind of how it works over here. Like the the festival that used to happen in my hometown, um, people would just go to play, they wouldn't even go see the music, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. This year was I was a little bit embarrassed. Uh I I'm uh I was uh at the festival this year, and uh I was a guy who was uh sitting inside and playing guitar, and he was really good. And I could hear on the accent that guy must be from the US, right? And it was Jon Moore. Uh and I I yeah, and I don't know Jon Moore very well. So I'm I'm not super familiar with him, and uh after some research, he was some kind of teacher to Chris Thhieley and stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yes, um like early on, that's what I've heard, right? In it in his childhood. What was he doing over there? Did you get that story out of him?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, he was playing. He's a good friend with the guys that uh sets the festival up and stuff. Oh and he does uh like horse, yeah, yimmy. He does like horse stuff. Um I don't know, he's like a horse horse whisperer or something. That's cool, man.
SPEAKER_01That's the things you learn in the bluegrass community. Um, yeah, that it's so funny because like everything to me, everything about what you just described is really normal in terms of like a bluegrass festival, but then I have to remember that it's happening in Sweden, you know, and that was like that was so crazy the first time I went over there because like you go to the festival, you see all these bands playing. There might even be a few American acts like you were talking about. It but then you go uh it when the when the band stops playing, nobody's speaking English. So there to me, it was like this really uh interesting. Like I was I felt completely at home when the music was going on, like when you and I sit down to play, it's like you forget that you're in a foreign country. Um when that's happening.
SPEAKER_00How would you compare like the sweet you you've been to Girena as well? So how would you compare our bluegrass festival to like yours in the US?
SPEAKER_01I would say that the the Swedish festivals were um on league with the best bluegrass festivals that we have over here. Um just in terms of like the the quality of acts that you get, but not just like the the like the people that are playing there, uh the crowd that shows up and the the pickers that come to play are all really high level. Um and and it's there's a really you can tell like kind of tight-knit um uh culture around bluegrass in Sweden just from going to those two two festivals myself. So I was very impressed, and I honestly like yearn to come back to both of those festivals because they were so fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Are you planning to visit Sweden anytime soon?
SPEAKER_01I I I don't have any concrete plans, but I'm looking at the the calendar here, and it's been uh I'm I'm one year late because usually it was every two years I was coming to Sweden there for a while. So I think maybe this summer, uh like after, you know, I might have to to see if uh maybe we get some midsummer uh stuff going on again. Because isn't uh Tuschwalker around that time? Like uh was it before or after?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's it's uh after midsummer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so maybe I come for midsummer and then hang out for a few weeks. Yeah. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_00Um so so when you were at the uh at the uh bluegrass festival in US, I would guess it's the same in Sweden. People are not there to see the band, they are there to jam.
SPEAKER_01I would say mostly, you know. Um at least at the festival that I had here in my hometown, I would say maybe 50% of the crowd went there like purely to see the music, and then another 50% of the people attending were like in and out of the festival because they were back at their campgrounds like jamming all day. You know, so do you think it's the same over there, or like what's the ratio maybe of like people that play to not, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the the people are there for the jams. I mean it's the way it is, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So uh but uh being uh having the campsite and uh and the actual festival closed this year, everyone at the jam was also up at the festival, with which will also bring more money to them, right? Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I you know, I've never actually asked this. I think we've talked about it the first time that we met in person, but is that how you started getting into bluegrass? Like, did you hear about these festivals first? Or did you like yeah?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, first of all, I saw the movie, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the the movie, we don't even need to say it, right?
SPEAKER_00We don't even the movie that's funny movie, right? And uh um I I played guitar, I started to play guitar like when I was uh twelve or thirteen, I guess. And uh I listened to like the Swedish uh version of uh let's see an artist uh what's his name? David Allan Coe or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like uh more but and uh I like the sound of the guitar, right? And after I saw the movie, I I had to go and research what is this kind of music, you know. Uh it sounded like country to me, you know. Yeah, and uh then I found out about Ton Rice and Doc Watson and I was immediately hooked. So just watching the movie, and uh then then I uh saw the Two Shoker Bluegrass Festival in 2010, I think. Uh and I went there, it was only like 40 minutes from my home. So I was very lucky that way it was close enough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's almost like uh the if if you're if I'm hearing it right, you saw the movie, you were already playing some guitar, and then you discover that like oh crap, like this festival is like right in my back door, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I got the bug.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that maybe that's why we fit so well together when we play, because I think mine was the exact same, dude. I had, you know, I I played ACDC for like four years, you know, on my electric guitar. The movie came out. My dad was obsessed because he listened to Bluegrass when he was a kid with his dad, so it like rekindled this in him. And then same deal. There's like, oh my god, there's a uh a music hall uh five minutes away where the year after the movie came out, I saw Ricky Skaggs, Rhonda Vincent, and Allison Krause and Union Station all in person at my local theater at home right there. Because like, and and they had never come through that region before, but I think because of the movie, you know what I mean? Because of Old Brother. Um did you so who were some of the like first uh you said that Doc Watson and Tony Rice were like the the kind of main inspiration. I I think Doc Watson whenever I think of you, you know, yeah, like uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00The first one I I saw when I searched, uh it was Ton Rice, and then I saw Doc Watson uh and also led me to Norman Blake. So Norman Blake and Doc Watson are my jam, you know. I I started a lot with you know this uh Ton Rice stuff, you know. And I and no offense to Ton Rice, but nowadays I can't stand those licks uh in Sulus and stuff. I I can't stand it. I mu much uh prefer a more easy way of playing if you play the melody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. There and there's something that you can I'm I'm kind of with you in that I think it's oversaturated, right? Everybody played those licks. Um even Tony didn't play them as much as some other people play them. You know what I mean? But but I I'm with you on this this melody playing. Um, you were actually when I first started seeing you on Instagram and YouTube, because that was years before we ever met in person, I feel like we were kind of maybe messaging back and forth and and stuff. Um, but I just remember like I didn't even realize that you were Swedish at first. I was just like watching seriously, I'm I'm like watching your you play guitar. I'm like, this dude, like he he must be like in Virginia somewhere, just like listening to Doc Watson records all the time because he's like he's like totally melody-driven playing. The way that you cross-pick and and use the Norman and Doc vocabulary is very like fluent, you know. You sound like a native speaker when you play it. So um talk more about that. Like, what how did you like start making your own breaks early on, or did you just copy those guys a lot?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh I I copied, and uh to me I would uh encourage anyone to just copy at first. If you don't know about bluegrass, you don't know nothing at all about it, just copy a break. Try to make it sound as close as you can to a specific break that you like. Yeah, and uh I there's a danger to do that though, and I still think that today, and the reason being I saying that is if you if you play like uh you know uh Bowman Rag Brian Sutton arrangement, I know that, but if I'm gonna play that in a jam and I play one note wrong, it starts to you know mess your brain up because you wanna play it from the memory exactly like it. So it can really be a bad thing in a jam situation.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. I I like that because it's like a um because it's like it's like memorizing a speech or something, right? Like if you lose one word, then the rest of it just goes away, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like when I'm talking to you now, in my mind, I'm very good at speaking English. I know my accent can never sound like yours, but I know every word. But when I speak it out loud, maybe I'm getting a little bit nervous talking to you, you know. And after a while, it's get a lot a lot more smoother, just like when you warm up on guitarite. It's the same thing.
SPEAKER_01I I've always used language analogies with guitar playing, but like I and I think it fits just because of what we're talking about right there. I think because you are learning to speak a language just like with your hands, right? Yeah. Um, not your your voice. Um that's cool. So so you said that you you mostly sit at home and play. Um how shortly after you you started play like learning this bluegrass stuff, did you start the YouTube channel and start doing those kind of things?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I had the the actual YouTube account I had from like 2007, I think. So it's way back. But uh it I started to making you know the name Flat Pick Nation like in 2017 or something. I so that's where I really started, you know. Yeah. So the first clip I uploaded, like uh my first Salt Creek reason I uploaded that was I wanted feedback, like oh, this guy is good, you know. Like but nowadays I wanna I just wanna help people, and I I you you know I have two kids, yeah, uh and it's not easy to you know I would love to just move to US and live on this stuff as a teacher or whatever, uh, but that's not gonna happen, and I don't want to. I have my lovely kids, so this is a way for me to do what I love. Uh so YouTube is really uh I'm very driven to take this up, you know. I want to make this a living one.
SPEAKER_01I I love it, man. Well, you we you know that we you and I have had personal conversations about this over the last few years. Like, I feel the same way, and honestly, it it sucks that we don't live close to one another, but we at least have this thing that we're doing right now. Like the community online is so cool, and even though we don't see each other that often, I consider you a good friend, man. Like, we've yeah gotten to know each other so well just from doing this, you know. Yeah, um, but I I do want to say too, like I appreciate how committed you are to teaching um guitar in the way that you are teaching it. Because we talk about the differences, like you joke about it sometimes online, like, oh Hayes, you want to know all that theory crap, go talk to Hayes. But you like you want to like see how to play the guitar, like stick around here. And I think that couldn't be uh a better description for how you teach, right? Because it's very watch me play, listen to me play, like I'm gonna play it slow, I'm gonna play it fast, and then just Try to like figure it out. So, can you talk about your teaching philosophy a little bit more?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think in some way I got the idea from like uh Marty, uh you know, uh the OG. Yeah, he did that a lot. When I started to play guitar, I I actually watched him play some songs I like like so cool. You know, when you can do it on two strings, like yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he actually did this, do this, uh and uh maybe I got it from him, I don't know. I haven't thought about it, but maybe uh uh but uh I teach like this because it was a way for me to to learn from others when I saw someone do it that way. Uh I don't do scales or anything, I just uh uh I know stuff anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well you're the thing that I think I have this theory that you do know just as much about music theory and all that stuff as I do, but you just don't think about the words that I use. Like your hands and your ears know it. You know what I mean? Like which to me is like like the the ultimate goal because I don't think Doc Watson was sitting around talking about modes of the major scale, you know. Like I don't think like those guys cared about much of that stuff, right? No, yeah. Um that's that's super cool.
SPEAKER_00Um I I think I guess I guess I uh somehow know the cage system, I I guess. Yeah, you know, because I was doing this Cape W thing yesterday, and if you play here and you know what I mean. Yes, exactly. So I guess I kinda know that, but if I think about it, and then I just get brain freeze. I just need to do it.
SPEAKER_01So you'll be happy to know that I've talked to one other guitar player that said almost the exact same thing about their own playing that you know they learn mostly by watching and listening. They sort of know the cage system, but like not really. Like they know the chord shapes, right? The that guitar player's name is Cody Kilby. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, you and you and Cody's alright. Yeah, he's okay, right? Like I think he figured some stuff out, right? Yeah, but but I think that's that's something that it's scary for people to try and get them to learn that way, though, isn't it? You know, to like because I think people they how many uh how many comments on your channel do you think exist where they're asking you, hey, can I have the tabs for that?
SPEAKER_00Every every video I upload. So I actually made that, you know, the recent video. I don't do tabs. They're still asking for tabs. What you're gonna do? So that's actually a big reason why I'm afraid to do private lessons. Because uh, if I can't tell them theory or stuff, they wanna know, and I just sit sitting there all like looking like a dumb idiot. Yeah, I don't know. Figure it out.
SPEAKER_01I I think though, like so I I meant to say this earlier, even though I do have some of those like theory words, because I like went to college and got my degree, and you know what I mean, like all that bull crap, whatever. Like, and and I I don't want to diminish it because it was for me, it was good. I enjoyed my time there, but I have recognized since that I didn't need any of it to do what you and I are talking about, you know. The the theory helps describe it, but the way that I learned, Patrick, was uh just the way you did. I had a guy in my hometown who sat knee to knee with me and was like, here's how you play the right rhythm. You know what I mean? You you move back and forth between these two when you're on a C chord, you know, and was just like it was all no theory language. It was watch my hands, put your fingers here, all that kind of stuff. Um, and then I kind of moved off later, but I think, like we've talked about before, you and I can play together well because we have that common experience and language. It's like it's a deeper thing than just like numbers that we read off of a sheet of tab or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and I gotta say, uh I when you started play playing rhythm, I thought about your video with Eli. Uh, you were talking about closed hand or open hand, or and when you did that, I'm very easy-led type of person. So when you did that, I started to pay attention to it, and now I'm paying attention more than I'm playing the guitar. So I mean, and like the guitar pick or like the capos, these are the expensive. Let's be very clear about something. You can get away with a Kaiser capo, that's it. You can. You can use a pen. These are for the fun of it. We like the look. That's I mean, we like the look.
SPEAKER_01I I couldn't have said it better. That's so true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and uh and guitar picks are uh more important to me than a capo, I would say. Uh for me it's not about the material. Uh I had made a video about this, but it's not the material for me, it's more about the thickness and uh I have like sweaty hands, so yeah. Will it hold up in a jam without me dropping it? It's more important in if it's made of gold or silver, you know. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Well, and and it I could see too, because uh Magnus and I have talked about this before, our other Swedish buddy, Magnus Setterlin. Like, yeah, because it's hard for you guys to get all of the fancy picks over there that we have in the US, right? Like the shipping is more, or they just don't sell them at some of the stores. So I could understand if you're not in the US or you're not at least in a hotbed of it, you could have that jealousy, maybe, of like, oh, that pick is what I what I need. You know, that's gonna that's the secret to my my sound. You know, I I'm not sounding as good as I can because I can't get that pick or something.
SPEAKER_00But that's exactly it. You nailed it. And uh uh being the most of the you know the real good flat picks are from the US because you know you kind of invented the term flat pick or Tonor Eis did actually. I saw a video when some guy interviewed him on a show or something, yeah. Uh and he said it's a flat pick. Uh so why do you call it that? And he said something, it's a pick and it's flat, you know. And that was the yeah, yeah. But that's it, easy enough, yeah, yeah. And uh but I'm lucky, I'm uh I'm you know, I'm endorsed with token picks, so so I'm very lucky that way, but I still need to pay for for the import and stuff, you know, and it's you can't get away from that.
SPEAKER_01Nah, that's uh a thing that like the the US you would still have to pay import, but it's uh it's a lot easier to get around than it is in other countries coming in this way because everything is you know, not everything, but a lot of stuff is just made here, first off. So um, but yeah, man, that's uh that that sucks. But I'll tell you this anytime you need any of that that uh you know a fancy new capo or something, I'll just bring it to Sweden with me next time, you know. We'll we'll we'll save the shipping.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I love it. Uh there's a lot of capos I like. Let's talk about some capos.
SPEAKER_01I I like that, man. So you did what what were you holding up there a minute ago? Was that a page that you had, or what what kind of capo is that one?
SPEAKER_00This is uh the Shub Fine-Tune capo.
SPEAKER_01Dude, that's exactly what I have right here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I had uh this sleeve is from uh an Elliot that I took off. Uh that Billy Strings had. Yeah. So yeah, that's I I like this cable. It's good, it's smooth. Uh one other capo I really like, besides Elliot, everyone knows about you know McKinney cable. Uh the cat cat eyes, cat is I don't know how to see it.
SPEAKER_01I have one over here, cat eyes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Reason I I like those, I mean everybody works, as I told you, but the reason I like those is they are very slim.
SPEAKER_01Yes, thin line or whatever. Yeah, thin line. Show the camera. This is a fun cable. There's this uh camera.
SPEAKER_00And you know, Chubb Kapo actually reached out to me. So if you Chubb, if you see this, uh I want my capos, please. They sent me a message and promised me to send me a bunch of capos. They liked my videos.
SPEAKER_01So check it out. I know I am very familiar with the Shub people. Uh um uh Adrian and and Pete Begail, the guys that uh own uh Northfield uh mandolins uh are also part owners in Shub. Um so uh the I I've met those guys uh when I was doing some demos for Northfield, and uh I'll tell you this, they're good for it. So as soon as Adrian sees this video, like that those capos are gonna be in the mail, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. They they were starting some new type of uh endorsement program, and uh they sent me a message on Instagram. So yeah, anyway, show me Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01This is the cat eyes. This is I use that the brass one uh that Marcel kind of has. Do you did you use the the steel one for the cat eyes? Yeah, that's that's kind of the more popular one, I think.
SPEAKER_00And then I it's it's just for for the look of it, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Um, and and here's another one that I was this is uh one that I got as part of my prize package at Winfield. It's a page retro. The crater. Yeah, Page Retro Pro is the name of this one. Um I think out of all of these, the Shub is my favorite, but but I think like you said, you know, they're all it's all about the fun of it, it's all about the look, they're all good, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so uh one thing about the Shub cable, uh I mean it's very easy, right? It's a good mechanism. But the only thing uh I would change is the size of this uh button here. You like it smaller, maybe? Yeah, I like it smaller, so I told them I want the cable with a smaller one, and they wrote back to me, I'm gonna see what we can do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I think uh because that's the one thing I do like about the cat eyes, right? It's got that kind of smaller uh button on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And uh you can't uh remove this. Yeah, exactly. I I've tried, so you can remove this part, but yeah, this one is still here, even if you remove this.
SPEAKER_01It's fixed, yeah. It's on a uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I took some Scotch Sprite and I uh sanded the side because on a hot summer day on these ones, uh they get kind of you know g glidey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know what I mean? Exactly. Yes, yeah, yeah, like it you need uh it needs to be uh coarse in there to grab the yeah, exactly. That's the word. Yep. I've uh I've run into the same issue. I even had that on my Elliott capos. I I noticed that if it was a hot summer day, I would find myself kind of like re-tightening it every you know what I mean, like every tune or two.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, and and I really like you know, everybody in the bluegrass I mean that was even when I started in 2010. You need a D18 or a 28, no other brands, right? Same with the with the Elliott capos, but now you know you have Chubb, you have the new page, and uh I think even G7 make a yoke style now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, G7 makes a yoke style, and uh Taylor guitars makes a yoke style capo now, which is a really nice one, actually.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that might might be my my English here, but I don't even know what the word yoke means.
SPEAKER_01Oh, like uh yeah, so a yoke style capo, uh do you know uh like when they put ox, you know, an ox or like a like a bull or like a cow, right? Like in in front of a cart. Like in it's pulling a cart, the yoke is the thing that they strap to the cow's back to pull the cow to pull the cart, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we have a cow capo.
SPEAKER_01We have a cow capo, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A cowpo. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. I love it. See, that's how you know that his English is good, folks, because he can make a pun. You know what I mean? That's that's hilarious, man. Dead humor. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I mean, we see the BAMSA and the uh the Buzz Lightyear in the background, dude. So it's uh That's great, man. Um so let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, if you don't mind, uh, because I know it's you you mentioned like uh you've had the Flat Pick Nation channel going since maybe 2017, but you're obviously like a you you you've got a full-time job or whatever, you've you're a father of two kids. Like, how does that all like work together for you right now? Because I think this that's what people don't see on the flat pick nation channel. I think that we all think there's this Potrick guy, he's sitting in a cool apartment in Sweden just playing guitar all day, right? You know, but yeah, I wish.
SPEAKER_00That's that's the dream. No, I have a full-time job. It's a good job, but it's the most risky job in the world, I would say, for a guitarist, in terms of the danger at the job. So I work in the steel industry. Yeah, it nowadays you call it Aleima, uh, but you would know it as Sandrik, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So so what I do, and this is really hard to say in English, I guess. Uh I'm gonna see if I can put it off. So you so we put on these big steel uh rolls and we put it in a machine that straightens it. Yes, and then we cut it to the specific length to like customers. So I cut for uh you know. No. No? It's kinda close where I live, and that make very famo every every day working knife at the workshop use a muragneel. How do you spell this? M-O R A.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I do the red handle. Yes, I I just looked it up. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so so the steel that uh me and my buddies at the worked cut for them are actually the more high-end like chef knives. But uh we also uh cut for um uh like bone sauce, you know. Oh, yeah for like doctors and stuff, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh and then we have CCM hooky, you know. Every every pro skater you see uh were it wears our skates.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's cool. So you make the blades for the skates.
SPEAKER_00That's yeah, yeah, yeah, a part of it. So we we cut the length and stuff, and then uh it goes to them and they like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, stamp it or cut it. Yeah, stamp, yeah. That's super cool.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, but it's it's like you know, uh every second in that job, you know, you are close to get cutting a finger off. Yeah, and we have like our machine is actually from like 52, so it's all doing by the old school way. It's not like a built-in super safe machine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you this is probably I think I know the answer to this, but do you wear gloves or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You have to, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because if you uh you know you need to lift and st lift the the steel, you know, with your hands. And if you do that without gloves, you can say goodbye to your finger, man. Slice it off, right? Yeah, yeah. It's it's sharp. Oh so I I don't know the the actual word in English. It's I don't I wanna say the word slithing slit. I don't know the word. So you straight you straighten and you cut. I don't know how the English word for that type of machine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about though, because I've I've seen like videos of like a steel processing plant. Like you said, it comes off the rolls, right? And then you you straighten the roll of steel, like it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's uh and still and and and if you don't know, uh I mean if you never worked with steel before, like we have four millimeters thick steel, and that doesn't sound much, but uh you know to straighten that out yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, you don't want to get your finger in the machine or you're gonna you're gonna come out flat like a flat pick, man.
SPEAKER_01Oh did do you know this about Tony Iom, right? Do you know this? Do you know Tony Iommi from uh Black Sabbath, the guitar player from Sabbath? I'm very bad at uh that I'm a bluegrasser. Yeah, so check check this out. This is how he because he uh uh he's a left-handed guitar player, so he frets with his right hand, but he lost the tip of his middle finger doing this at a steel plant. It was in a press, you know, like a big uh so like you said, it it flattened it out, you know what I mean? And um I think they said they could have saved his finger, but his because it hurts so much, his reaction was to draw the hand back so it, you know, uh it it would be the most uh sensible way of react, I would guess.
SPEAKER_00I would do the same thing. Absolutely. I mean, oh man, I don't want to think about it either. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01I'm like I'm I'm getting sweaty and like scared, like I'm already thinking about my finger right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, I'll say this on behalf of every flat picker out there. Please be careful because we all love your guitar playing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I say this to everyone in the world. Please subscribe to Flat Pick Nation so I can make this a living.
SPEAKER_01I think if if if there's gonna be any anything to convince the community to show up for you, it's telling this story. We need to save Patrick's hands, people. Like, yeah, this is oh yeah, man. Well, um, that's that's super cool. Thanks for sharing the story about work, and and I hope people do subscribe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and uh I was thinking about this yesterday. Uh I I think that I am an easy learner. I don't know how to compare that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but in my mind I think I am. So sometimes when I do a lesson and I say, here's an easy easy lesson, and afterwards watching it and watching the comments, maybe it's not an easy lesson. So I don't know where to draw the line.
SPEAKER_01What's a beginner lesson and what you know Yeah, it's I I'll say this too and and this is I play I'm I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little bit in that I've run into the same issue before, finding that sweet spot, you know, and how to how to label it. But I think oftentimes um you we can give a beginner lesson that a beginner needs to know, and they might be really scared because it seems harder than something they've ever wanted to do. So I think that you know what I mean, they're like, oh, this is too hard. Their immediate reaction is like, I can't do this. And if if that's where you start, you can't do it, right? Like you have to believe that you can do this thing. So um I would say don't be so hard on yourself because I love the way that you teach. I think it's the right way, it's slow, you show it real slow, you know what I mean? Like, like yeah, you know, like if you can't follow that, then that's that's I think that's on the student a little bit to kind of sit with it more, you know, and and watch, you know, listen, listen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they also they can, you know, and slow it down even further on YouTube.
SPEAKER_01That's right. I always this is something that I always try to remind a lot of my students about because I think you and I like you said, you consider yourself a fast learner. I think those of us that have managed to make it to this point in our playing, we have this kind of need to do it. Like you like, I have to play the guitar, which means that like. You just figure out all the little steps along the way and you don't think about it so much. Meaning you click all the buttons, and does one of these slow this down? Um, you know, or or you like right, you you you learn to loop the section that that's giving you a lot of trouble, like you you become resourceful, I guess. Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_00Um and so uh at the beginning of my uh Bluegers journey, uh when I in that time you couldn't slow down, you know. Yeah, some of the part I could figure out, and then there was like uh some tunerized link I could learn. So at that time I actually I copied the link uh and I downloaded from a site called Save from Net. And I downloaded the video on the phone, and then I downloaded a program that could slow it down, and it could be the wrong program because you could also take the pitch down, and that's not very good. Yeah, it was har it's much easier to learn now, even if it's not the lesson. You can slow down anything and make it a lesson almost.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that maybe that's like what I'm trying to get at, right? Is that you and I had to make those recordings our lessons because we didn't have a YouTube teacher, we had Marty for a minute, you know what I mean, or something like that. But that's a great way to think about it, man. Um do you use programs like that anymore, or or do you just kind of stick with the YouTube functions? I think YouTube is good enough, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, mostly nowadays I don't if it's not a request from someone because I get message every day like I want to learn this particular arrangement, then I gotta learn it. Sometimes I may slow it down, but often I don't need to. But other than that, I like to just make my own arrangement nowadays, and yeah, they are mostly in the you know Doc Carter uh vibes. Yeah. And uh I I'm I don't know what's your favorite key. I would guess you're a G type of guy.
SPEAKER_01I'm a G type of guy. I'm and I'm gonna guess, are you a C type of guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. C Yeah, you see? I love it. Um what what's like when you think about playing something in the key of C, like what's the the like your favorite, you know what I mean? What feels like home to you on that?
SPEAKER_00Uh like a particular tune or just uh Yeah, yeah, maybe man. I just feel home in C. Yeah, it just some some it's like how how the licks and stuff sounds in the key of C, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Just like like the tone of it, and even you know, uh playing out of playing in D with the cape per second, you know, I like the sound of it. Energy. Yeah, yeah. It just sounds good. However, if I try a new guitar I never played before, the first time and this. Yes, I can sit like this. I don't even need to take a chord. So this is the first thing, you know.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I uh I'll even do that to warm up a guitar, just like hit the D and the G string, like until it starts to wake up. You've got a new guitar in your hands there, so did you find it changing on that one, you know, over time?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, I never played something quite like this guitar, and uh uh being at home playing alone a lot, I was starting to think if I were or imagining this guitar being this good, is it just my ears that thinks this, you know? So when I took it to the Bluegrass Festival in Tushoker, I mean everybody said the same thing. Do you know about uh Friedholm guitars?
SPEAKER_01Oh Thomas, yeah, we go way back, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he he loved this guitar. He took a good look at it and he was like, and these just started, they started to build in 2024. Uh and he was like, Man, these guys know what they're doing. Yes, and they are young too. I think they were born in like '98, I think.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, they're 10 years younger than I am. Yeah. That's crazy. Oh, and say the name of the the um guitar company again for everyone. I forget the yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is uh old growth uh guitars. Are they German? I like the name. Yeah, German. So that's good finally for us in Europe. Bad for you guys.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. That that guitar's gotta be really expensive for me, dude. Yeah, yeah, the Euros kicking the crap out of the dollar.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, so if I would compare this to a guitar, it's very similar. It's different, but the most similar guitar to this is uh Collins D1A.
SPEAKER_01Love it. It's very calling-esque, yeah, punchy and kind of powerful, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's still sure it's woody, but it's it has the new sound. I love the new sound, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01I do know what you mean, and that's why I mean you, you know, like I people have been noticing over the last two years that I've I've kind of like been playing more and more callings, you know, and and I think it's for what you're describing the the the new sound that they've kind of developed, built off of right, built off of the Martin golden age kind of specs, right? But but then tweaked. They they've added their own thing. I uh I always tell people that if you're gonna buy a guitar without ever playing it, and you've got like you know, cash isn't a problem, buy a Collins D1A. You you won't be disappointed with it, you know.
SPEAKER_00And they are consistent good, like they are always great. Yep, they start out as a super good guitar and just becomes better. Yeah. I have nothing bad to say about Collins guitar. I just love them. I love the look of them. The only thing if I would own one, like let's say a hill country, I'm not a fan of the pick guard. I'm very I'm I'm super nerdy. Yeah, I I'm super nerdy. Like I like to when I don't play, I like to clean it and you know look at it. I I love that. I love that stuff, and I even put the halter pick guard on this one. Yeah that's like yeah, you know, halter. It's yeah, it's the best.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and that's one thing I've always appreciated about you too. For anyone that follows your Instagram or your YouTube channel, I feel like you're always hot rotting guitars, you know, like like swap swap a pick guard out, or like change the tuning pegs, or like change, but but always in service of making it better, right?
SPEAKER_00Like uh yeah, you saw the old recording king. Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's it's not worth the time, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's the thing with those uh like Pacific Rim guitars, you know what I mean, and stuff like that. They spray the finish so thick on those, right? You know? Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um they I would say they dip them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, probably right, because that it's I never thought about that, but it is so thick, right? Like I've yeah, I've sprayed finish on two guitars, and I put 20 coats on for the first one, and that was like you don't realize how thin that is, you know what I mean? Like 20 coats is almost nothing, right? So but those are like 200 coats, you know?
SPEAKER_00It's like yeah, and I think this is a part of why I love this guitar and also love collings so much. There's not many companies nowadays that use nitrofinish. I know Collins does. If they haven't changed, I would be surprised if they did. Yeah, but you have like these great guitar, you know, uh bourgeois guitars. Yeah, they're using like their true tone. It's like a mix, but it's still a bit of plastic. Yes. I mean. Uh and uh yeah you know about Bouchier guitar? Yeah, yeah, they also use polyfinish.
SPEAKER_01I didn't realize that they were using a polyfinish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and people I don't know if people realize this, uh and they might love it, and that's okay. Uh but uh their guitar will never ever change in terms of look. Never.
SPEAKER_01That's the thing, right? It does you don't get that nice kind of like amber uh or like orange color.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, no, you can get that, uh, but uh most of the companies using like a UV protection on it. Uh so you can get it, but if you like, you can't get the nice pattern never, it won't happen. It just won't, never ever. I'm sorry, it's not gonna happen on a poly finish.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna ship. Yes, that's right, like uh flake off like that. Yeah, that's I I never thought about that, man.
SPEAKER_00So I so I'm I'm uh I do own uh uh bourgeois, uh which is the you know the touchstone. It's a really good guitar, uh, and that has the uh true tone. Even their America made uh I know have true tone, some of them. Yep uh and uh those guitars won't wear the same way as a true nitro wheel, it's just it's not gonna happen, and it will look new like always, and people forever, yeah. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that. Uh I mean I neither relic. I I even love relic guitars, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01I there's something I uh I I didn't bring it upstairs. I'll have to show you sometime. My grandmother, I have her 1949 Martin D18, and it's just been beat up, you know, but it looks you know, it's got the the like you know, that washboard top right under the pit guard where it's like kind of wavy because the finish is worn through. Like all those cool things that we love about the old guitars, right? So to think that that you wouldn't get that kind of sucks, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it does. It uh yeah, oh no, I don't like it. Neither, neither, neither.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it it's it's funny because a lot of people I you you're one of those guys who I appreciate watching your YouTube videos and stuff because you always um you know a lot more about these things than I do. Like I don't know so much about like the the process of like building guitars, at least in terms of the scientific difference between like nitro and poly and stuff, but I always hear people saying that like nitro's the one you want, you know. It's like these things you hear like Adirondack Spruce. You know, you've got to have Adirondack Spruce, and you gotta have a nitro finish, and you gotta have this stuff. But um, this is why I like talking to you, I guess is what I'm getting at, because you've got that knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, yeah, and it's it's my opinion of all the knowledge, you know. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I I'm very you know, like if you say Doc Watson, there's not one video on the whole YouTube I haven't watched that Doc Watson's related, you know. I'm very geeky about this stuff and uh I just love it, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's what drew me to you in the first place, anyways, is you know, when I started seeing your content, it's like you don't get that good at that sound on the flat pit guitar if you're not 100% in love with everything about this, you know.
SPEAKER_00So um so we were talking about uh like improvising and stuff uh I think earlier. And uh how how good are you at finding uh if if I would just tell you a tune now you never played in the key of C, would you be able to just play it like the melody right away?
SPEAKER_01Um pretty close to right away. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00So do you consider uh us two to be uh easy learner? Or is it because we played so long? What what what do you consider? Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01I I think I I do know what you mean. I I think um I I would say it has a lot to do with how we started learning. You know what I mean? How but like when you when you're forced to kind of use all of your senses to figure something out as opposed to just a tab or you know, like one of those things, I think it it uh opens up this uh ability to learn faster. You know what I mean? It's like by doing something kind of hard at the beginning, it makes it easier for the whole rest of your career. That's my theory, you know? Um which is why I'm so and and I don't think it's too late to learn that thing. I think you just have to do a little bit of time where you're just kind of, you know, like you said, you you don't you you listen to the records that you can't slow down and you pick out some of the notes that you can and then try to figure out the rest, you know. It's it's a hard process, but it's worth it, I think, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So uh we were also talking about what is a beginner lesson, what consider advanced lesson, you know. And sometimes sometimes when I play and I want to do do a lesson, I think about is it uh if we take that was the most easy way I can play it, right? Yeah. So do I need to do add cross-picking and you know kulicks to make it more advanced or just change the rhythm, you know? That would make it a lot harder. If you just do you know Norman Blake's stuff, he just more like so that now it's not an easy lesson, right? You don't it doesn't need to be the the fancy lick that makes it an advan advanced lesson.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because he Norman adds all those upstrokes, right? To like his his drumming.
SPEAKER_00I would say he he's doing rhythm all the time. You know what I mean? Yes, I don't know that the term of this you do. That's why you are so good at this. You know the right words for it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or at least I'll make one up, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Pretending. Yeah. But I I think that's an interesting because like both of those, like you said, both of those variations are advanced lessons, right? Yeah. Um, but but the first one, and I could see how the first one, if a beginner like someone who just picked up a guitar saw that, they're like, I don't even know how to make a C chord, so I don't know how to access this, right? You know, but but but like I said, I think they're they they owe it to themselves to believe that they can figure it out a little more. I think beginners could figure out, you know. Yeah. If they know how to play chords, right? Exactly. And and I think that's maybe part of it too, like, because I have this this combo conversation a lot. When I put out a beginner lesson, to me, that's a lesson for someone who already knows the basic chords and can maybe strum a little bit. Like those two things, like you have to be able to do that before you even like show up to to watch a lesson. How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I've been thinking about that as well. I I I almost like I I think it was like yesterday. I I thought, do I need to put out the lesson on how to take a G chord? Or can I still doing my beginner lesson and it still it still is Oh Chub just wrote to me. It's heading your way soon.
SPEAKER_01You wrote something in the I did not do, I did not do anything, I promised, dude. That's uh have you ever I don't know if they have it in Swedish, but uh uh in English we would say that their ears were burning because we were talking about them, you know. So sorry, I interrupt you there, or maybe I interrupted myself. What were we talking about? Uh we were talking about oh, do you need to make lessons that are just like uh like a G chord only or whatever, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. So some sometimes I actually think about that. Do I need to okay? Have you never played guitar and you want to play bluegrass? Learn a G, learn a C, learn a D, start there, nothing else, you know. But if you look about have you uh you know, beginner guitar lesson, like overall, there's so many of them already.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, and and it's funny because I guess that's we're back to how you and I learned versus how like people are trying to learn now, maybe. We're like it didn't matter to me if it was bluegrass or not. I would have just sought out the lesson that taught me the thing I needed to know back then. I don't care if Marty guitar taught me, I don't care if Banjo Ben taught me, I don't care, you know what I mean? Like, like I would just search like G chord and be happy with that lesson. So, like, but but I think the barrier is that people they get this in their head that they're like, I want to learn bluegrass guitar, so I search bluegrass beginner guitar lesson, and then it's what you and I talk about, where we're already two steps ahead, right? Where they don't have the bluegrass. Here are the bluegrass beginner chords, and here is the bluegrass beginner rhythm, you know, like all that kind of stuff. So maybe I I challenge you, man. I would want I want to see your beginner lessons on this, I think they would be great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, it's not when I do lesson, one of the hardest part for me, and this is this is uh the truth, man. Uh, it's what do I call this when I upload it, and which thumbnail text should I use? I mean, I even asked, I I'm not gonna lie, I asked uh Chat GPT like uh I I have an idea, like okay, I have made a video about this, I did this, but I don't want to call it bluegrass beginner like everybody else. Yeah, and then uh the the the chat GPT can actually help me as being a Swedish with words I you know don't even think about. So in that way it's a help, uh very helpful. And then I did I have like a thumbnail I used to do like I have like five of them, but I stopped. Uh I mean people don't want to click on them, you know. Yeah, I it just because my ability of editing is is not very good and it felt like a good fast way to help me, you know. And now I use uh the Fonto app, you know, about yeah, I do know about that. Yeah, yeah. So now I'm doing it myself, everything, and I I feel a lot better doing it that way.
SPEAKER_01I I like that man. Um because that is a hard part about doing um YouTube stuff in general, like the you put all of this effort into making um like this great video, and then the thing that stands between you and someone watching it is this picture that you have to make, you know, yeah, this stupid thumbnail thing. And and it can really hurt your video if you don't have the right one, you know. It's it's it will weird.
SPEAKER_00It will hurt your video, guarantee. Yeah. And uh also, you know, if you every every uh thumbnail when a guitar player do this. You know what I mean? Yes, it's they're using AI, most of them. I can see it right away.
SPEAKER_01It's just there's something about the image, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I I tried when I first tried to use it, I was like, damn, this like I can't do this, you know. I was uh quite impressed. Uh and uh but then it started to change stuff. Like, what the fuck? I don't have a tattoo there. What's the what's happening here? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01I have six fingers, what dude? You'll love this. So I I had it do a thumbnail and a title for me a while back when I was first getting started, just like experimenting with Chat GPT and stuff. And it made a thumbnail and text for a video that I had made like six videos ago. I was like telling it to make a thumbnail for this like new video, and it was like it had it in its mind that, like, no, I'm making a thumbnail for totally different video. So I think we're a minute uh from AI taking over the world, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it if you're using it the right way, it can be good, like uh help you correct uh a spelling issue or stuff like that. That's really good for me when I you know yeah from Sweden, man. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I I think so, like to in in terms of those translation type of things like you're saying like I can write uh like this.
SPEAKER_00I I wrote I posted something earlier today. I wrote like this much, and then I copied it into chat GPT and I said can you correct the misspelling and I don't see anything wrong with it. It's still my words just yeah exactly spelled right.
SPEAKER_01No, I I think that's that's totally cool man. Um yeah that it's it's it's hard to bring this up because some people are very passionate about like no AI whatsoever because of like environmental stuff or whatever you know but but yeah I'm I'm with you. I think there's a response it's my channel so yeah yes dude I love it and I mean I'm here's the deal the for me I can't the the the the way that I use AI is exactly the way that you do where like I'll um summarize uh text from a video like I'll do the text transcript of a video and then feed it in there and be like can you give me a one paragraph description of like everything that was discussed in this video and it's usually pretty good with that. Yeah um and that's just for like my website for like clerical you know what I mean so it's like these tasks that that just don't don't matter otherwise it's not like I'm asking it to write my lesson for me or to you know or to make tabs or to like make music.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean all these dumb things that I think are awful you know what's the if you would uh um gonna make up a thumbnail text now you have 10 seconds for this particular video now what would it be?
SPEAKER_01Oh man um so there's three there's like three directions that immediately came to mind. Um the one of them is like the uh um like five things you didn't know kind of title you know what I mean uh another one would be like uh um the like you know what would I say like the the the like the the the secret Swedish flat pick influencer you know what I mean or something like clickbait like that that those are like the directions that my mind goes with it to kind of like take something that's like a little true about the video but almost like uh hype it you know what I mean like like blow it up a little bit to create that curiosity you know um or uh or something the other one that I forgot to say would be like uh you know like burn your tabs or something you know like that's like an exaggeration of something that we like said in the video that's like that Swedish asshole said burn your tabs I gotta watch that exactly and the first thing that came to my mind I can see you on the left side of a picture where you are doing this face and I'm laughing and you and you have the text where it says capo or cowpo. Yes that's the first dude I love that one because people like talk about creating curiosity people are like what you know yeah so I can't I can imagine stuff not just uh you know chat GPT and but but all the examples that we came up with are kind of like right these ones that we know work that we see successful channels using so like you said that's how we know that we're still like creatively in control of this thing we're not asking chat GPT to do that part for us you know yeah um so I I'm actually I'm gonna take on some students I've been chatting a little bit so uh but the goal I have I I want to mention that is you know we we get money from uh the ads you know yeah and I and I would I want to have I have a goal that just from the ads I want to have about the same amount of money every month that covers the same I have from my work now.
SPEAKER_00Yes you know what I mean? Yes I can quit that job and when I have that kind of money from the ads only then I can take students like a day job do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01I I do know what you mean and and I think that's a great strategy because you're looking for that stable base right yeah like yeah with the ad revenue I think that's a great way to to do it you know I know a lot of our buddies are doing stuff like that like you know I bet Marcel and and yeah but he's like 100k more than 100,000 man. Oh dude well what what's your up to now like 20 getting there it's like 18,300 ish as of today or something like that. So getting close to 20.
SPEAKER_00Yeah that's that's where are you right goal uh 31100 I think close to it.
SPEAKER_01That's great man and I think you're not far off because what I've talked about with Marcel too is that like the subscribers are are good and everything but it's more about the watch time right so if you have videos that are that even if people aren't subscribing to the channel but a lot of people are watching them you could still end up getting that that ad revenue you're talking about so yeah so the problem I've been doing I it worked with the subs I did a lot of reels you know I never did reels before but I started to do like a lot of them like one a day all the time to see if where it would take me and it really helped the subscri subscription but the watch time isn't you know that's the thing there's short videos right so it's like yeah so it's not gonna gain a lot of watch time so I'm actually recording a lot where you only see my right hand in a in a and that's actually me testing my audience.
SPEAKER_00So I did like country roads in bluegrass ish. Yeah and uh just to see do people want to listen on this and man I had so many requests and then I did a little bor a little bit more uh lengthier video like 15 minutes or whatever it was 10 minutes so I would say it's good to have a lot of 10 minutes videos so that's funny you should say that because Marcel has been honing in he's told me similar numbers right like the 10 to 15 minute video is kind of like the sweet spot right now at least in terms of what people I think are willing to watch um yeah but your podcast like I have watched every episode from this start to the beginning I haven't you know oh fuck this you know yeah I have watched it and uh I can go out in the kitchen have something to to drink uh speaking of uh yeah and uh and I still have you on I can I can hear you so I don't need to see it but I want to listen.
SPEAKER_01I dude I love hearing you say that and I hope that anyone listening to this or watching this right now that's that's what this is intended for like the podcast format. It's like we're just keeping you some company while you're living your daily life you know um which is why Eli and I I think we landed on the hour long format because one we can't stop talking and and and two but it's like it's for got it's for you this podcast is for you you know what I mean like the people who are just like really into flat picking and who want to be a part of the conversation you know yeah yeah and I must say uh uh I wasn't very familiar with Eli before this or a little bit before you started because I saw some videos where he was like I'm gonna try to learn guitar yeah something like that but he's really good dude he's so Eli I love that he's not here to conduct this interview because now I can brag about him um but but Eli he's like a big banjo player right a huge banjo player he's one of the I think the only other banjo youtuber that has more subscribers than Eli is Jim Panky so they're like the two biggest banjo youtubers Eli is an amazing like straight ahead like JD Crow and style like banjo player like really good bluegrass he played with Missy Rains and Allegheny for a while um but there's this kind of like secret history that um that I he doesn't talk about much um when I first subscribed to his banjo youtube channel he had two YouTube channels one of them was Eli Gilbert jazz guitar and he was playing like Bebop and all this kind of stuff and he's ridiculously good at like Bebop guitar dude so like he was doing that when he was like when we were learning Doc Watson in our teens he was learning like Charlie Parker stuff you know um so he's got this like really good jazz knowledge but you know this like flat picking isn't jazz and jazz isn't flat picking you know what I mean like the like when people try to cross over like it takes a lot of effort so I think that's why Eli was doing that new guitar channel because he really wanted to dig into like what you and I love the like Doc Watson flatpicking realm you know so uh what would you what are your I think it's a good opportunity being a flat pick uh uh podcast to lift some players that you really like that deserves more attention if you will I mean for me he he already is well known now but I mean Jake Eddy is one of my absolute favorite players right now yeah Jake Eddy is a is a powerhouse I absolutely love his guitar playing um who else can we think of here uh we already talked about this on one podcast before but if you're into like progressive bluegrass or like flat picking stuff Ben Garnett the guitar player that Eli played with in Missy Rain's band I think is amazing. I've been really digging I love Courtney Hartman I do you know she's amazing oh man I was listening to so she played some there's a great record that Lindsay Lou just released called Bluegrass Women um yeah so some uh part one series on YouTube. Yeah so that record is killer man and and I need to jump in here and say Lindsay Liu's voice is uh I mean I can't I I don't I don't even yeah no it's she's amazing dude it's uh um it it's it's crazy to think about like I told her this I I commented multiple times that this is like in terms of just a straight bluegrass record this is the most compelling one I've listened to in years I I like I started the record and I didn't stop until it turned over again you know like yeah um so I I think uh Courtney's playing on that record was was just beautiful in in my opinion you know and I think uh everyone should should kind of like give that a uh an opportunity I'm even looking at the track listing here to see if I can recommend some um but yeah uh Courtney she's one of my faves um also uh Maddie Whitler I'll say Maddie Whitler uh most people know Maddie as a mandolin player but yeah her guitar playing is like holy crap you know so good I talked to I I have a chat to Maddie uh like years ago when she played with uh Patrick Gunning you know him yeah yeah yeah yeah so I know very well amazing player both guitar and mandolin it's it's kind of nuts we she and I were in uh we didn't actually live together but it felt like it when I was in Boston I was over at her house every night picking tunes that was like so you you went to like Berkeley right I went to uh a place called the New England Conservatory of music which was just down the street it's this I think it's the oldest conservatory in America the NEC and and it like it's like in this collect Berkeley NEC and then Boston Conservatory were all just like right on top of one another in Boston so we all hung out what what's his name to Tony Wyatt Wyatt Tony Watt yeah Tony Watt he was uh I was at his house I was just texting with him uh and thanked him because every almost every weekend he would have a jam at his house uh in Cambridge Massachusetts just north of Boston and we would all go there and that's how I got to know all these cool pickers and got my butt kicked you know yeah and everyone that goes to Berkeley it this is my my take on what I think anyway it's like they just pumping out shredders like oh it's nuts man it that's it how it is you know I I think it's uh that's almost yes and I think that's one reason I moved there in the first place was that I knew like NEC the school I went to was good but I knew that there was a a scene in Boston that would like le elevate my playing you know yeah um yeah what about you man who are who are some other flat pickers that you think about is there anyone else that yeah I mean I would uh one player I really like because I know he can shred but he still plays the melody very well is Kaiser George you know oh yes yeah I really dig his playing because he can shred but he still plays the melody very often yeah man I have heard him playing very melodic stuff as well which I I think it's harder if we would narrow it down to what's what are your uh some of your favorite players that stick to the melody do you know what I mean? Ooh not not the shredders yeah I I love that well Courtney Hartman is still in my list if that's the case because I think she's a very strong player that way um man who else is a good one uh it's harder right it's harder you know because yeah and I'm and I'm like there are names that are coming to mind but they're already like famous people like um you know like Chris Eldridge you know like when he sticks to the melody he plays great beautiful like lush things you know but people know critter um who else is out there there's this guy I need to I don't know how to say his uh last name I will try uh and uh he like he doesn't have a lot of subscribe subscribers and he plays a lot of uh like Norman Blake stuff his name is like Bru Brian Dabro or whatever you say the the last name D U B R O W I think yeah I see it Brian maybe long hair yeah oh yeah I've seen Brian before and check it out I love that I love that guy because he's sticking to the melody he plays a lot of normal stuff he's not you know like 200,000 subscribers and I think that's uh a name uh worth mentioning you know that now that you're mentioning that that inspired me because uh I'm thinking of Ken Merritt do you know Ken Merritt have you ever heard of this guy? He won that uh picking for the prize contest that Marcel hosted like the year that Marcel hosted it for IBM A yeah I have a vague picture in my head yeah Ken is awesome man the the same kind of deal where like he's he's got like a job and a thing and he's not like you know not a ton of subscribers on Instagram or anything but you listen to him play and it's just like these really inventive uh melodic arrangements of stuff he studied with Jake Workman and and some people like that so he's he's pedigreed you know he's yeah Jake Workman he's just he's probably the best player alive I would say yeah I I couldn't agree more I've been meaning to reach out to him just to like get some lessons with him or something but he's yeah he's he's the best um yeah it like you said the list of melodic players definitely diminishes you know when you go down and and that's not like a uh just to be clear to anyone listening or watching that's not at least on my end that's not like a criticism but it is like a a like noticeable thing right like yeah it it's uh you need to shred to be a good flat picker yes that's not the case no and and what's funny is like you you're your number one guy our number one guy our number one ambassador in the world right now Billy Strings he shreds all the time but when that dude is sitting down to play with other people like if it's just a duo thing it's like the most cool melodic inventive breaks you could ever hear right like he he like yeah straight back into the the realm of doc watson so yeah yeah and uh Billy Strings I mean he's we gotta be thankful whatever you think about him he is making the bluegrass scene mainstream I guess dude he uh like and I don't make a bluegrass cool yeah I like I I don't mean this in a dirty way but like I have a lot I owe a lot to Billy Strings just in terms of I have guitar students now who like literally have told me that they're like I wouldn't be standing in front of you for this lesson if it wasn't for Billy Strings. You know so it's it's pretty crazy man.
SPEAKER_00I I think that uh I think uh about this a lot actually I think Billy Strings will help bluegrass uh youtubers a lot like for lessons and stuff he will uh help us because it's very niche you know yeah to to live on bluegrass guitar on YouTube it's not a thing really of course and do you I always see this connection you know to bring the conversation full circle we got into bluegrass from the movie yeah and like to me Billy Strings is the modern version of the movie.
SPEAKER_01He's yeah he's the one that's getting people excited about this stuff. He's the reason that there are all these like young people that are buying flat tops and getting tattoos and wanting to like shred you know what I mean like he's like all the cool stuff and like I think like you're saying you know I'm sure guitar teachers at the time in the early 2000s said it that they were lucky that old brother where art thou came out you know what I mean because I'm sure there were a lot of bluegrass musicians.
SPEAKER_00I mean Mike Compton even says this the great mandolin player that that movie almost like single handedly like revived his career you know talking about uh Mike Compton uh he's the guy with the black hair right uh no no that's not him that's Mike Marshall I think Mike Marshall yeah yeah yeah the other guy he's bald right yes exactly yes yeah yeah yeah so Mike Marshall actually uh played these guitars oh yeah pride is like a lot of them he he loved them that's right he's because he lives in Germany uh with Katarina now that's uh yep he's uh uh he he got smart he moved to Europe man yeah so should you oh dude so I don't mean to scare any of my American you know friends and family but my wife and I have definitely talked about it we love Sweden dude yeah yeah it's uh it's definitely on the short list of places that I would uh move tomorrow if I had the opportunity you know yeah well Patrick this is we've been going for almost 90 minutes dude and I think we've yeah it's been that long it's been that long man so I think this is uh probably a good spot to to wrap things up for the podcast um can you we've talked about it a bunch but can you just tell people who are watching and listening where they can find you and how they can support you yeah yeah just uh flat pick nation and I must say I have the best name of them all I mean it's just it I mean flat pick nation I'm sorry dude no when when I saw that name come up of that's why I was like oh this dude's like he's sitting in his house down in Virginia you know like you know just picking tons like I love it man I'm uh you are the best person to own flat pick nation so yeah so it's just flat pick nation on YouTube and Instagram uh and also like a fan page on uh Facebook I don't use TikTok it's too much same so yeah um is there a do you have a Patreon or anything like that or any place where people can support you are you are you doing the hats and t-shirts still do you have any of that uh no no not anymore you yeah you can buy the flat pick nation uh the caps uh from uh tokens uh uh website oh great uh but uh you know just PayPal if someone wants that's like my my thing I have think thought about doing Patreon but it's just another another thing to learn yeah exactly you know if I don't have this day job you know then maybe I can look into Patreon and take the time and you know absolutely man well here's the here's the challenge that I'm leaving everyone with here today now that you know where to find Patrick go watch all of his content subscribe to all of his channels send him as much money as you can so that we can get those amazing hands out of the steel factory and behind the guitar all of the time how does that sound dude yeah sounds awesome man well uh Patrick you are one of my favorite people in the entire world thank you so much for uh for chatting so long we gotta do this again man we gotta we gotta have you back I loved it man awesome dude well uh thanks again and uh we'll catch you guys later thanks for listening to the flat picking podcast