The Flatpicking Podcast
Hayes Griffin and Eli Gilbert discuss all things flatpicking and bluegrass guitar. Technique, Gear, Players, and more.
The Flatpicking Podcast
#6 Bluegrass School to the OPRY feat. Grant Dresnok
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Special guest Grant Dresnok talks Bluegrass School, Practice and Performance Habits, and Touring with Bronwyn.
We never have a way to start any of these things. So, folks, welcome back to the Flat Picky Podcast. I don't know when we're fitting this episode in because we've never had a guest on this show before. Uh, but I'd like to welcome my friend Grant to the uh Grant Dresnick. Grant Dresnik. Dresnik to the podcast. Uh all the way from Nashville, though back in Maine currently. Um and uh taking a break from being on the road with Bronwyn and uh whose uh record just came out. Was that how long ago did that record come out?
SPEAKER_01Shoot, that would have been maybe just over a week ago. A week ago.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. And you are, I know there's a bunch of people featured on the record, but you're on the record. I'm actually not on the record.
SPEAKER_01Not on the record. It's funny, Bronwyn and I didn't know each other by the time she had recorded the record. Oh, no kidding. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So she was kind of limping along, is what you're saying, until until she until she met you. Uh well, lucky for her, she doesn't have to you know hang out with those slouches anymore. Uh okay, so that's interesting. So the record was probably recorded a while ago. How long have you been in the band? Probably a couple months, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, since the new year pretty much. Nice. Okay. Yeah, Bronwyn and I we met um at ETSU actually. She uh came and did a master class with Jason Carter and you know, didn't really think too much uh didn't really think too much of it, but um, you know, about a year after that or so, I got a random message on Instagram. She's like, hey, you want to audition for my band? Yeah, you know, yeah, so been on the road with her since this January. Nice.
SPEAKER_00That's great. That's killing. So, and so you graduated ETSU uh how long ago was that? In December. In December. Oh, okay. So it was a mid right, because you had transferred from another program and yeah, I had done kind of a similar thing when I was there that I had already been in school for I guess two years and transferred. So I was only at ETSU for three years. Were you how long? So how many, how many years did you actually end up studying at ETSU?
SPEAKER_01It was three and a half years. No, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, part of me won, you know, wonders like I I was just trying to graduate, obviously, but it's like what a great environment to learn. Uh, you know, it's like being around people and picking so much. It was kind of like, did it have to end? I guess I could, you know, like why not take longer? Why, you know, why was I in a hurry to get out of there? But um uh sweet. So that so playing with Braunman now, that's a pretty big shift in like the amount of time that you're playing on stage. Because I know you've played uh you've got a great band, Pythagoras. Yeah, you played a bunch with um, you know, like people around CSU and stuff like that, but uh I imagine that's like a pretty huge change, uh just like just the like the amount of touring, the amount of playing time on stage, and then like the types of audiences and stuff. What's what's that been like for your how's that like affected your playing uh to to all of a sudden be like on the road all the time?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, it's it's really been amazing, and it's um, you know, the the band that I'm with is you know it's an all-star line above musicians. You know, you've played with Tristan a bunch. You you know, yeah, yeah. So it's it's really amazing to get to play with those people. And you know, they've kind of given me a big kick in the butt um just by being around them to, you know, try and rise up to them and try and you know get my personal chops up and stuff. I love playing the guitar and it's you know become an even more big part of my life. And you know, we do a lot of we did a lot of jamming when I was a student at ETSU. Like I was playing guitar all the time, but you're right, it's a little different when you're on stage and stuff. You think about it very differently. It's like, you know, maybe you got a little bit more to lose when you're playing. Totally, totally. But it's um, but no, it's it's really been great, and you know, I've been spending a lot of time playing guitar in my bedrooms and stuff, and just like the really fun thing about that band, too, is we'll be listening, driving down the road, and we'll hear a song that we all like, and it's like, let's just learn it, let's all work it up to it. Yeah. So it's like just kind of having to adapt and be able to become an expert at something very quickly, it's something I've had to get more comfortable with.
SPEAKER_00That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, I think Frank had told me that that that Brahmin likes to like put new stuff in the set all the time. Like, like, are you guys doing like something new on basically every show?
SPEAKER_01Is that is it is it that much or is it I wouldn't say it's quite every show, but it's like every run that we do, I feel like we kind of try and add like one or two songs. Yeah, so it's really fun. And sometimes Brahman will shoot us a text a few days before we go on the road and she's like, Hey, I've been loving this song. Like, let's work on this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then yeah. That's cool when the when the band is kind of up for that because uh depending on like what the gig is like, you know, hopefully everyone enjoys the gig and and is having fun in the band. But sometimes you can tell not everyone's exactly in the same wavelength in terms of like enthusiasm to to work on stuff or to practice or rehearse or whatever. And but when you do kind of have that vibe, when people are kind of excited to get after it, it's like it makes it that much easier to get that energy in yourself, right? Like I feel like I've played better in situations when everyone's like, Oh yeah, let's try something new, let's work on this. And it's like then then you kind of feel like give you given permission to to go for it in a way, you know, which which is what it seems like you guys are doing on stage for sure. Is you know, you I mean, I guess you could try to fake energy like that if you wanted to, but it would not be very fun. So it seems like it's real. I imagine it probably is. Definitely so yeah, for sure. That's cool, man. Yeah, I mean, I feel like um uh just my own, like, you know, back when Bronwyn lived in Boston, we would play a bit. Uh when when the Cantab was still happening, that was the that was the gig I would play most of the time if I was playing with Bronwyn. And uh and that was always a great time. I feel like uh it's cool seeing uh like these different combinations uh pop-up of bands that uh you hadn't seen play before, or like you've seen in certain contexts, like like you mentioned, I played with Tristan a whole bunch in Missy's band. And then um I know Frank is you know, like all these players have played with a bunch of different people, and then it's like this combination hasn't happened yet. So like now that it's kind of seemingly solidified as like this is the band, which is cool, because I think Bronwyn had a number of different lineups, kind of like either who was available or or whatever the deal was, but it seems like now it's like this is the band, which is cool. So um, yeah, do you feel like you're like you know, in your own playing, you're kind of able to start to anticipate what people are like how you're playing is gonna fit in with this band's particular sound? Like, has what what's kind of changed in the way you play to fit this band?
SPEAKER_01Do you think that's a really good question? Um, well, I will say off the bat, one of the best things about working for Bronwyn is that she's like, use your own voice and like play what you want to play type thing. She's not, I don't know. Have you seen the Jimmy Martin video? Your head take, your head take. It's none of that. She's totally, totally. It's more so like, you know, play whatever you want to play type thing. And you know, we'll talk about it if it doesn't work or something like that. Yeah, most of the time it does. And yeah, I feel like adjusting to this band and stuff has been um, I've been thinking a lot more about rhythm guitar. Oh, okay. I think that that's been a really big thing that I've been working on, and just trying to, you know, find groove, find pocket and stuff like that. It's um one of the, I guess, biggest, I don't want to say hurdle, but like one of the biggest things I've had to realize is that, you know, my identity is so deep in bluegrass and joining her band. We do a lot of bluegrass, but we do a lot of non-bluegrass stuff and a lot of non-bluegrass groos and starting to kind of get more comfortable with like thinking not just as a bluegrass guitarist, but thinking as a guitar player. Sure. And I think that that's been a big thing that I've had to work on this year. And you know, it's as you know, it's the lifelong journey of being a musician, you're never gonna be perfect and stuff, but yeah, definitely just uh trying to think, trying to think differently about the guitar with the end.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, interesting. When it comes to rhythm stuff, um so you when you were at ETSU, uh, was Wyatt Rice teaching? Did you take lessons with Wyatt for a while?
SPEAKER_01I did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did you find so I don't know if people uh I may have mentioned this on the podcast, if not on my own YouTube channel, but I took one semester of lessons with Wyatt. I think the the second year I was there was his first uh year when he started teaching there. And of course, everyone was like, yeah, let's all try to take lessons with Wyatt. Why would you not do that? And so I did, and I showed up for the guitar and you know, I like grew up playing guitar and everything, but uh had no bluegrass guitar experience. I was like, cool, I'll just learn this stuff. And and I think it was pretty quickly I wanted to know what like rhythm stuff he was doing, and he showed me all the downstroke, like the kind of downstroke sweeping thing, and like I think I gave it like one or two days, and I was like, I don't have time to get good at this because I need to I need to actually figure out how to play banjo first, and so I I pretty much gave up and I just would just like go and play tunes with him during lessons and stuff. Um now I'm working a little bit more on it, and like, yeah, maybe I should have just stuck with it. But um but did you spend much time on that kind of rhythm stuff with him? Like, would you say that's that's become part of your your sound, I guess, or your or your playing, or or do you think it was uh more big picture stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel like a lot of it was more big picture. Like when I started taking lessons with him, a lot of times he would it was kind of like a shut up and listen to him type thing. Totally. And like not in like a disrespectful way or anything. It was like, this guy is just such a master at his craft and stuff. Like he he knows what is best for you. So a lot of times I'd show up to a lesson and you know, we'd talk for a few minutes and then he'd be like, I've been working on this song, you should check this out. Cool. And usually just show it to me, and we'd you know, run through the melody of it and stuff. We did jump into a little bit of rhythm, but not as much as I hoped to, to be 100% honest with you. But it's I feel like for that, um, there's I can nail it in the bedroom, but I'll start that. I can nail it when I'm practicing in my room at home. But totally. Actually, when you're on stage, it's another thing, you know, to get that kind of level of precision and stuff, kind of just yeah, that whole thing. He uses his thumb a lot too to kind of work the pick, too, and it's very precise. So it's I think that's kind of my lifelong quest is trying to get better at that as well. That's super interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I totally, I mean, I feel like because I I've watched a you know, I remember from the the lessons that I took with him, and then I watched a bunch of videos, and so like I think I have a a decent idea of what that is, but you're right that it's like it's such a big gap between understanding it and like being able to pull it off. Like there have been moments where like if I'm if I practice a whole bunch in a day and I'm super warmed up, I can get it at like medium tempo, kind of. And then there's no chance in like a real situation, like even a jam or anything like that. I'm just it's not gonna happen, but totally, but uh, but you know, I can't I I've been practicing it certainly to to maybe someday. Um but I do, yeah, I know it's it is interesting. I think it has kind of inspired me to be a little more flexible with my technique in that maybe not just like I'm not just gonna do one hold to pick just one way all the time. Like maybe it's it's worth kind of um having different techniques or different holds for different you know context or something like that. I mentioned this in depending on when this episode comes out, you may have no uh remember that I was talking about um uh some stuff that I was wondering about David Greer's playing, and uh was watching a video where he was playing with an open hand, even though you know usually he's got the closed hand, right? He was playing with open hand on something and uh and talked about it in a video, and in an email, uh David had very kindly been like, just do whatever, whatever whatever you need to do. Like you can change in the middle of the song. It was it was kind of like okay, well, at least it's not like set in stone. So I have thought about that a little bit, then maybe it's worth uh spending some time uh kind of switching back and forth if you need to, if that's the sound you want to get, maybe like following the sound more than like this is how I hold a pick, this is how I do everything, you know.
SPEAKER_01Definitely so.
SPEAKER_00I feel like what's king in those situations is like whatever's comfortable for you to totally which seems to kind of require like some honesty for yourself about like, am I really relaxed right now, or like am I hoping that I'm relaxed, or you know, whatever it is, it's like especially God, especially playing in a gym or uh or or in a gig where things like the energy gets higher, it's just like where was all that relaxation I had when I was practicing, you know, or where was you know, the same thing, especially with the you know, that whole thing. Totally. Um yeah, totally. Okay, well let's let's um let's rewind a little bit. Yeah. Um because I feel like when we met, you you'd been playing long enough you were really were were playing. This was not like right when you first picked up the guitar or anything. So you were we were but it was long enough ago that I think you were you were starting to figure out who all these people were and get into and everything, like I think maybe the same age that I was when I was starting that journey, I think, right? Like so um one of the people that uh I know you were into earlier on, and maybe this connects to another episode that we talked about with Billy Strings. Oh yeah, was that it's getting to the point now where there are professional players who some of their early strongest influences was Billy, which is obviously such a big difference from like 10 years ago. A professional player wouldn't the ages don't match up for that to happen, right? But now we're kind of at the point where like, is that is that would you say that that's accurate that like early on that was a pretty big like impetus for you to get serious about this stuff was was Billy.
SPEAKER_01100%. I was at uh Gray Fox Bluegrass Festival, it's the festival that I grew up going to with my family, and it was 2015. My dad and I just happened to be walking by the dance tent one night, and we just like it was amazing, just like the sound that we heard, and it was back when he was playing with Don Julin and uh a bass player, I forget his name, but it was just my dad and I kind of looked at each other in that moment and we're like, this guy's gonna be huge. Like he was amazing. It was just kind of that gut feeling. Like, I don't think I'd ever really been hit musically like that in person before. And then uh, you know, he kept returning to Gray Fox a few years and like got to see him like art as the artist in residence two years in a row, and like getting to see him sit in with like every band there was like I was a kid in a candy store just eating that up, yeah. And like, you know, then I went home and really started doing some research, watched a lot of YouTube videos and started learning his songs, and like, yeah, Billy was definitely the guy that like got me into it. Like that was the real, yeah, yeah. And then through him, I learned about you know Tony Rice and just all these other people, but Billy was definitely the catalyst for it all.
SPEAKER_00That's super interesting. That's cool. Yeah, it seems like there's a at least a couple players around your age that it's a similar story where like kind of at this point a lot of those, and I it seems like this is true for you, but for a lot of players that like uh had that early influence, and then now kind of as professionals, like you can you can tell there's some influence there, but they're definitely like kind of doing their own thing for sure. You know, on one of these episodes we're talking about, Luke Black, who I know your buddies with too, it's like similar thing of you know, there's you can tell there's that that Billy Strings influence, but there's also so much other stuff going on now. So, like who would who would you say is like um because I in your playing I can definitely hear some Billy Strings or some and and Tony and like all kinds of stuff, but who would you say, like, are you what are you checking out now? Like, what's kind of when you're uh kind of like trying to expand your your your bluegrass stuff, you know? Uh what who's the player you're kind of checking out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say right now, like still Billy Strings and Brian Sutton. Okay, I would say that those are kind of the two kings for me right now. Yep. Um yeah, with Brian Sutton, because he played on so much of Bronwyn's stuff, yeah, it was pretty amazing to just like, all right, well, here's how Brian Sutton would attack the song and kind of steal little snippets and stuff from kind of what he's doing. And then with Billy Strings, same thing, but I've kind of started this new philosophy uh over the past few months of like learning things that excite me and like not learning things because I feel like I should know them, type of thing.
SPEAKER_00Right, totally.
SPEAKER_01Because like when you're learning things and you feel like you should know it, it's not as fun, and it kind of makes it a painful process almost. And maybe it adds some anxiety to the process too. But a lot of times, if I'm just like sitting, like listening to a record or something, I'm like, that's cool, that's really cool. I'm gonna slow this down and figure it out. So that's what keeps me excited about music, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's huge. Uh we've Hayes and I have been talking that about that a bunch. That there's no, you know, you can make a list of like here's some common tunes or or um, you know, classic Tony Licks or whatever. Like you can you can kind of make that list, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a list of things you need to know or should know. And kind of the yeah, I think uh that's such a it took me a lot longer than it's taken you to to come to that conclusion of like, you know, just just kind of following what you're excited about, or at least to to recognize that like the times I've been successful in in making the music that I wanted to make or something like that were the times that I was following that that thread.
SPEAKER_01People talk a lot about the toolbox too, the musical toolbox of ideas and things that pop into your mind. And like there are a lot of times where I've had to like kind of grind through learning songs and stuff, and then you know, you work really hard at this thing, but like maybe nothing really fits into your toolbox. It's like this one piece that you can play, but you can't integrate parts of it into other parts, and that's kind of a big part of it, too, is like finding something that's exciting to me that I can get good at enough to integrate parts of that into other solos and stuff. Kind of like a cameo and a different song. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. I love that stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it's almost like there's a second level of like uh, you know, that first that first barrier is like, is this interesting enough for me to learn it, first of all? And then you'll be like, okay, let me get slow this down and check it out. And then there's almost that second barrier that's like, is this interest now that I can play this, is this truly interesting enough that or useful enough that I'm gonna kind of bring it into other things? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. For a while when I was starting to to try to figure out flat picking stuff, Brian Sutton was really like the main player for me, just because it just like technique-wise, it seemed really kind of relaxed and and I like the sound and and great eighth note flow through everything, great ideas and everything like that. Um but I feel like uh it's interesting how over time you kind of if you're willing to follow that, you'll be like, okay, well, this is awesome. There are pieces of this that are really great, but they just aren't gonna work for me. Like I'm not gonna, you know, so so when I was, you know, used to be trying to do exactly the technique that Brian had, that turns out wasn't gonna do it for me. So I'm doing other things, you know. It's like you kind of that's one of those ways you have to be honest with yourself about like it is this just awesome because Brian is awesome, or is this awesome for me because this works for the way I want to play? And you know, like it's nice to be able to appreciate something from afar also and say, that's awesome. Not for me to play, but that's awesome. I want to listen to that. But you know, there's there's some of that that happens too for sure. Yeah. Um, cool. Well, yeah, what's um what's some stuff that uh, you know, I don't want to put you too much on the spot, but is there some stuff that you've been checking out or or studying that um that uh that's been kind of lighting you up at the moment? It could be a piece of a a solo or a lick or uh it could be literally anything that you've been just kind of like putting the metronome on and working on. You don't even you don't even have to be any good at it yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, totally. Um, I'm trying to think. There's this uh Billy Strings, uh, he did the NPR Tiny Desk concert. Yeah. And uh there's this song called Malfunction Junction that they did. It's an instrumental song, and there's just this little solo snippet that I've been just kind of like trying to work on and stuff. And it, you know, integrates a bunch of different techniques and stuff. It's um got some cool cross-picking parts and stuff like that. It's a very billy string solo. I would suggest checking it out sometime, but yeah, that that's something I've been working on as of recently, just like trying to like get that and integrate some of those parts into your playing, kind of that like uh like that kind of stuff. Cool, yeah, like kind of all those things, yeah. Totally, like those are like very just like Billy Stringsy kind of licks and stuff like that. So, like trying to like work on my uh vocabulary, finding ways to like build jams too has kind of been another big thing for me. Interesting, yeah. With a lot of Bronwyn's material and stuff, we've been um getting a lot more jammy lately, and a lot of that kind of requires the band being on the same page about what's going on and what direction it's going into the ebbs and flows of the build and the drop and the build again. It's like it is kind of an art and a science, and it's like when it you can organically pull that off, it's amazing. It is like one of the greatest musical feelings. You can tell the audience is into it too. Like it's just this like gut feeling. So finding ways to like build intensity and like start off low and slowly kind of building up, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's been another big thing I've been trying to work on too. And a lot of that for me is uh I throw on Daryl Anger's like fiddle drones or maybe cello drones or something like that. He has these drones on Band Camp. I'll do that, and then I'll throw on a metronome as well and have both those running at the same time. Then that kind of allows you to just kind of like noodle and find ideas and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then the metronome's kind of keeping you at least like I imagine there's there's plenty of times where it can be really fruitful to not have the metronome, but especially in the context you're talking about, it seems like the metronome would. uh keep it keep it within the lines of like what you would be doing on stage, you know, like it's gonna be in time for the most part. So that's cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I've been yeah, there's also this app called Transcribe. Actually Billy suggested it way back in the day. Nice. Maybe it's there's also one called like the amazing slower downer or something like that. Essentially does the same thing. So what I'll do is I'll you know audio record a video and then put it into the app. You can change the pitch, you can change the tempo and stuff. But that's keen for learning things is just start at 0.25 speed and like fight through it like section by section, note by note, like get through it. Finally, you know, once you can kind of make your way through it all, then bump it up a little bit then a little bit more until you're at one time speed or whatever. Yeah. Or 1.05 time speed or something just until you really got it. So yeah yeah yeah yeah that's been another thing that I've been like definitely trying to work on a lot more is just like not kind of getting it 80% but like really getting it 100%.
SPEAKER_00Yeah interesting. Did you find you did that is is that more of a recent thing or is that something you've you've kind of been doing um you know like like learning like whole belly string solos and stuff is that is that kind of been a common thread or is that more now that you're you're kind of digging into the whole thing?
SPEAKER_01I would say more now like kind of when I was at ETSU I think I was starting to realize like oh you know 80% sounds cool but it's not amazing type thing. And that's like really kind of getting a solo like nailing it is like there's kind of that gut punch of like wow that person did their homework and they put in the work like here they are totally totally would you say that you're kind of similar I guess like uh the jam stuff that you're talking about is is more improvised it sounds like um for the kind of more straight ahead stuff with Bronwyn would you say you're working out solos kind of note for note or how where on the spectrum between like totally improvised and like totally written out are are you are solos coming in for you? That's a good question. I think it really varies from song to song. Like there are um there's this one song we do called Flower Child and that's one that I'm gonna probably play the same break on pretty similar same for like open water which is a ripping fiddle tune that she does. And it's like when things are that fast and that intense in the moment I find it hard to be like very spur the moment creative wise without like potentially train wrecking. So it's kind of kind of a safety mechanism of like I know I can nail this and pull it off so I'm going to type thing. Yeah yeah yeah but with the like jammy stuff and whatnot like that's definitely a lot more spur the moment what I'm thinking exactly and feeling in that moment too like where it needs to go like what did the person before me do like how can I maybe like hint at that or like if they were really high energy like maybe I bring it down and then bring it back up again to where they were so it's like a very a lot of kind of context of the moment type thing when it comes to jamming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah that's interesting. Just trying to read other people's minds right yeah yeah yeah and it's funny too that I mean I don't have a ton of experience with the the jam stuff like I guess I haven't there was maybe one tune that I would do with Missy that was like uh kind of in that in that realm a little bit um and maybe if we had done more it would feel less like this but but I almost felt like because we did it that often I kind of remembered what everyone played last night and so then you'd kind of almost like have to decide like should like that worked last night should we do it like that? Or are we gonna like try something new or whatever. And you could kind of tell sometimes you could be like oh they're kind of going where they went last night let's just follow that thread and but sometimes you'd hear somebody you know um you know like Ben Garnett who's who's playing guitar in that band would be much more likely to do something completely different to start his solo like right almost almost you know I I'd have to ask him just but like seemingly intentionally like I'm not gonna do what I did last night you know and then we could kind of follow a new thing. Tristan would could be like that for sure. So that always found kind of interesting do you feel like uh do you feel like you have like a starting place that you like to start with with stuff like that or you kind of like enjoy jumping into the deep end on a jam thing like that.
SPEAKER_01Gosh I think it really depends how I'm feeling in that moment. If I'm like feeling maybe like I'm not crushing it or something during that show then maybe I'll like kind of resort back to what I know is gonna feel good and know that I'm not gonna like uh I guess go off the rails with but if I'm like kind of having one of those shows where it's like wow this feels really good like I don't know I'm sure you've experienced it where you're playing and it kind of feels like you can don't do no wrong somehow it's like you're just like in your zen just crushing it and it's like in those moments I think I kind of blow my own mind with what I can do sometimes by just kind of letting go a little bit. Sure I think that that's a lot of it is like emotionally kind of where you're at and stuff in the moment yeah totally um but yeah like for example um on this song we do the chain the Fleetwood Mac song there's kind of this um build up that I do there's a build in it you know we kind I'm kind of doing like a lot of flashy kind of uh it's do do do do do do do do do do so I'm like kind of doing all this like fast flashy stuff but kind of the build I've worked out kind of type thing which is kind of this like just kind of like this like build up type thing and like the audience loves it type thing. So like I will do it. But also I think there will come a time where like in a month or two where I'll be like this is lame I can find something cooler to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah like it's working for you now but maybe it's not it's not the end all be all it's just like you need something that has that effect.
SPEAKER_01Exactly and I and I think that that's the important thing as musicians is to like never get too comfortable in what we're doing and like find new ways to innovate because you can tell when a musician is very musically excited about what they're doing like and crushing it at the same time like there is kind of this audience thing of like you can tell this person's really excited about what they're doing. Yeah. And like you know once you've done something for 50 times or whatever maybe you lose that excitement a little bit and it starts to feel a little more routine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah sure sure sure yeah and I wonder too I mean maybe even you know on the on the on the timeline of months you can feel that in yourself but then like I don't know sometimes you'll you'll play like the same venue every year and it's like sometimes you'll play new stuff sometimes you won't but what if you play the same set you played last year at the same venue I doubt for me that feels a bit like oh I should play I I don't know if I want to play all the same stuff that we just played for probably the same audience that was here last year. Like you know so at some point something's gonna make you feel like you kind of need to keep it fresh. It's also it's interesting to hear you say that about the the kind of audience reaction because I've played so much bluegrass for audience that were sitting at like festivals just kind of watching silently which is a classic bluegrass festival vibe and you know love that. It's great. But it is funny because I I think I got so out of the so out of the mindset that like the audience like gives energy back as you're playing for them because some of those audiences that I'm describing do not give energy back. They just kind of take in what you're playing and maybe they clap or whatever you know like depending on if you're playing the 10 a.m set or headlining you may get a slightly different reaction. But it's cool I mean you guys are playing I assume you're playing some festivals but it seems like you're playing a lot of clubs that are like uh this is not um Graves Mountain for instance this is a different vibe than that. Yeah love Graves Mountain by the way for all for the promoters of Graves Mountain who are no doubt listening to this obviously um but uh but but that's gonna be kind of cool that that you're obviously playing to a younger crowd than what I'm describing and they're kind of like actively participating on the show. So that's that's a cool thing to get that that energy back in that way.
SPEAKER_01It's really amazing to be able to play for like a standing room audience and especially like a responsive reactive one. Like I find that when the audience is really excited about what you're doing it kind of hypes you up a little bit. It's like wow this person like really appreciates what I'm doing and it's like in the moment that means a lot to you. It's like you know as musicians we're like extremely self-conscious probably about what we're doing to a degree and it's like having that kind of like affirmation from the audience of like oh wow like they're into this like shoot I'm into this like I'm gonna crush it now type thing it's it's a really inspiring thing and getting to play for younger people is really cool too. We do this thing sometimes in shows um where we'll like go into the audience for the encore and do like an unplugged kind of thing. And like that's really cool too people are just really excited about it. And like to see just so many people that are just young and excited about bluegrass in the first place like growing up in Maine not a whole lot of those people like it was it was a little quieter like people were like Billy Strings like what is that totally and now it's like it's a little different nowadays but it's like yeah having young people that are into it makes me into it too. That's killer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah yeah no that definitely I mean I find uh as soon as you can kind of relate to the people you're playing for I mean I think it's it's you know most people think about it the other way around that you're looking for an artist that you can listen to that you relate to but as the performers I feel like we are kinda are kind of looking at it the opposite direction where it's just like trying to play for people who feel like they're really taking in what you're what you're laying down in a way that's not um uh you can tell that it's affecting them in a certain way right if you can you can get that feedback which is nice. Yeah that's awesome man. Okay well uh now I'd like to rewind back to one of the things that you were playing. Let's do it. Because now I'm curious and I I just want to have the thing to practice. What was that um there you were talking about some um some cross picking stuff I think it was kind of this like F-ish shape around here can you play a little bit of that pattern again? Yeah so it's uh like you can kind of do a long time okay but yeah it's uh so it's kind of down uh I guess it starts open here so it's like a down up down uh down up down and then down up down up down up type thing like cross pick okay yeah so you're you're just kind of repeating that order of the string exactly that kind of thing precisely okay yeah cool it's interesting because yeah it's funny as as you're kind of describing what the the upstrokes and downstrokes were it's such a classic thing of like once it's comfortable it's actually harder to explain slower like you know like all the stuff that I teach is like the things I can actually play without thinking about are the things that I have a hard time thinking about. You know it's like once which is a good side it's like that means you've you've got it in your hands. So that's cool.
SPEAKER_01When you um that that kind of uh clearly I need to practice that do you do so so when you're doing that you're doing all uh alternate picking there yes when when Billy does that is he doing the down down up thing there or is he also doing because I know sometimes with cross with cross picking sometimes he does down down up right he does kind of the shuffler style of cross picking yeah I think I I honestly don't 100% know what he's doing in that moment because when I was learning how to cross pick I learned from Billy Strings type thing and it was like a lot of that down down up but yeah it's also just kind of what feels comfortable to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah yeah and then this is kind of a down up down up sheesh it's so hard to even say it in the moment but kind of a similar thing to that and then he kind of slides it up three frets oh kind of goes with some cool dissonance yeah like a G7 thing yeah yeah uh for audio listeners by the way if you go on YouTube you can watch everything we're doing and and maybe at some point this will be I don't know if it'll be tabbed out but leave comments if you'd like to pay us to tab out all this stuff to teach you and granted a cut of that too. You can have half of a dollar. So yeah that's really cool man. So I mean it's interesting yeah when you when you watch something like that and you kind of know like okay here's the notes what's gonna be comfortable for me who knows if Billy's doing the down down up or not but like here's what's comfortable for me. I always found that that was the case like I was trying to learn some Clarence White stuff that like I knew it was down down up and I was practicing that way and I still kind of am a little bit but I was like if I'm really gonna use this I can kind of already tell that that isn't gonna flow quite the way that I I mean kind of like the the rice rhythm stuff whatever it is but uh yeah that's really cool man. Well thank you I'll be sealing that oh yeah that's awesome man uh sweet well uh let's um let's let's put take a a break from all the yapping and and play another tune let's do it if you don't mind yeah um what's uh is there is there a tune or a fiddle tune or something you've been you've been playing at all or could be yeah you want to do the old salt creek oh sure yeah yeah yeah old faithful yes yeah in g because we're guitar players and we're allowed we have that right yeah we'll see if I can actually play this I've uh uh you'd think this would be on my list of tunes I play all the time maybe now after this it will be yeah yeah go for it man yeah um yeah man so as uh as as listeners might have noticed you threw in a bunch of that stuff you were just talking about and uh as listeners might have also noticed I threw out some of those things that you I almost I almost got a little bit of it yeah um oh that's great man yeah I should um take a closer look at that tune but uh yeah that's awesome man that's great so uh when you're working on a tune like that like um something that would be just like a jam you know classic like I maybe you're playing that with Bron once in a while but I assume maybe you've never yeah right like it's like one of those things that like you you'll play one of those tunes with a band if like uh another band comes up on stage and someone's like what are we all gonna play together? Maybe Cell Creek will come up like that but it's not really going into a lot of people's set right but but it's still something you're probably spending time playing in for practice and jamming and whatever it is. But um when you approach a tune like that do you feel like you're uh is that a place where you're trying to explore more improvisationally or do you feel like that's where you're trying to like solidify some of your I don't know if I want to call it licks but like language you know that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Right. I think it's a little bit of both and I think it's super context dependent too like sometimes I'll get together with a guitar player and we'll each take five passes through that song. And like that's I feel like where you can really stretch out but if you're in a jam you get one maybe two passes or something like that. So like on the first one I feel like I'm trying to kind of solidify more of a melodic break and maybe on the second one I'll kind of get a little bit more out there on what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00You're obviously practicing I imagine stuff for uh live shows or maybe at this point like you've probably played so many of them if there's like new stuff like we were talking about then whatever. But um are you still trying to pick up tunes uh just like you know the kind of the never ending list of fiddle tunes is that still kind of in your repertoire or or in or in your your journey of learning things you know totally so because I think fiddle tunes especially are really ripe for like you know taking licks to add to your toolbox and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01And you know there are a lot of times where you know fiddle tune will pop up in a jam and then you'll be like oh man I wish I knew that one like I wish I could crush this because I know you can crush it and that's just like it's like shoot I should go home and do my homework on that and stuff. So like I feel like I do have this like short list. I mean I have this huge bluegrass playlist on Spotify in which I just like add anything that I'm like oh I should learn this or like I really like this. So I find myself frequently going back there and trying to find songs to learn and stuff like that like Dixie Hodan I'm gonna go I'm gonna go home and work on that one. I'll work on Solo Creek for Dixie Hodan then we'll come back and but it's like none of that is gonna hurt you to learn you know and like it's can be can be frustrating in the time of going through the process of learning it and stuff but it's like once you know it and really can integrate it I love throwing little you know bits of fiddle tunes into solos and stuff and it's like if someone can like really hear it and stuff they'll be like that is cool. That is awesome. Yeah like I remember for example like I guess at Grey Fox Billy Strings would like hint at the last train uh uh last train to Clarksville like he would do that riff and then oh yeah and like in the middle of a jam and it would be like whoa that's awesome like it's so cool so I don't know it's kind of like these little Easter eggs that's fun to the throw into your plane totally yeah that's pretty fun yeah and I guess there's never really like an end to the ones that that you'd want to check out but it seems like you know same same as what you're talking about when you're learning uh licks or transcribing solos or something like that.
SPEAKER_00It's like it kind of has to hit you a little bit like in that in a jam it has to be like oh man I wish I knew this tune.
SPEAKER_01It's not so much like okay yeah I'll learn all these tunes that I have to learn I guess you know like some of those are probably you know Salt Creek is a good example it's like yeah everyone should know Salt Creek but otherwise it seems like you're kind of following what's inspiring you more so than you know what's in the list of 100 bluegrass tunes you need to know or the emotional aspect of like oh this is such a cool song like I should totally learn this this is awesome or like darn it I really wish I knew this like I'm frustrated with myself that I don't even know it so it's like having that degree of like honesty too of like all right like I'm need to work on this. Yeah yeah yeah actually doing the work totally well that's interesting too do you find um are you listening back to for instance like uh shows that you're playing are you checking that out to like see how it went that kind of thing big time it's like one of it's a very gratifying thing and a very like I you have to be honest with yourself you really do because a lot of times you'll hear stuff where it's like wow like that sucked that was awful like really that was me and like I guess on the same on the other side of the coin you hear stuff where it's like wow that felt kind of weird in the moment but it sounds amazing listening back to it. So it's like I think it's really important to be self aware of you know exactly what's going on in your playing and you know you're In such a different headspace and mindset when you're playing than when you're listening back. So it's really important to listen back to every show, I think. And yeah, once again, shout out Tristan. He records all of our shows for us, text it out the next day or that night sometimes, and we you know listen in the van. Sometimes we listen as a band together too, yeah. Which is a really nice thing too, where we can kind of talk about like the pinpoint certain moments, like this really worked, this really didn't work, etc. It's kind of the never-ending craft of trying to craft a perfect show or whatever.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. That's cool. And do you find when you're when you're listening back, is it uh is it stuff that you were kind of I mean, I I guess it's probably all these things, but is it stuff you were kind of trying and saying, like, I wonder how that went, you know, like you know, I I thought this was gonna land differently or something like that. Or is it stuff where are are you I'll ask this because before I played any shows with uh with Missy Rains when I joined the band, Kristen Scott Benson played a bunch of shows and Tristan recorded all those shows and sent them to me. And so I had played all these songs, but I had this tape of Kristen playing the whole set basically, and there was stuff that she played that I hadn't thought of that was like, oh great, I'll you know, stuff stuff that she played in those that one tour that I ended up on the record because I was like, Oh, I'll take that and I'll put that in the tune, or whatever. So as as for yourself, are you feeling you're hearing stuff that you're like, okay, I want to do that again. That that worked, I'll I'll work that into the arrangement kind of definitely so.
SPEAKER_01And I think like a lot of um the Brian Sutton stuff on the record that he played with uh Bronwin and stuff, like I find myself like, wow, I wouldn't have thought to do that, but that's a genius. So of course I'm gonna take that. So like I think that it's important, I think it's important to learn from other people. I mean, that's how that's how we know anything in the first place, is because someone else did it before us, type thing. Like it's so I don't know. Some people like talk about like, oh, you shouldn't steal licks, steal all the licks, you know. Like it's I I think it's if it excites you, then like let it be part of your musical identity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome, man. Cool. Well, um let's uh let's get into maybe our uh we'll play another tune at the very end, but sure but now we're gonna do the the nerdy stuff, which is gonna be the gear and the picks and the strings and the oh sweet. You know, just for I'm curious about this. This will be just for posterity's sake because uh I know for me that all this stuff changes on a regular basis, and it's always interesting to know like where people are at now. So uh if you uh were waiting for the gear chat, it's now, and if you are dreading the gear chat, then goodbye. Uh okay, first of all, guitar, what is this guitar?
SPEAKER_01This is a bourgeois country boy with a satin finish. I think they recently started doing the satin finish. Okay. And uh if you touch it, I guess for all you listeners, feels less feels less finished, maybe than that guitar. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00It's hard to describe what that is, but it is yeah, it feels like less finish.
SPEAKER_01So it's um no, it's and it's really good. And I was talking to them about it um yesterday. I was just at their shop, and they mentioned that you know it kind of allows for more resonance in the wood and actually maybe makes it a little bit louder, which is pretty cool. Yeah, it does scratch a little easier. Um I I scratch my guitars so badly, and they actually, right before I got it, they put a little extra finish right below the pick guard where I have a tendency to kind of leave some marks. So shout out to them for doing that, preserving this gut guitar as best as we can, which is awesome. But yeah, so this is, I believe it was built either this year or later on last year, which would have been 2025. Um and yeah, I, you know, met them at IBMA and you know, hit it off with one of their sales reps guys who's you know five, 10 minutes down the road from where I grew up. It was kind of a nice little taste of home. And uh yeah, I'm a bourgeois endorsed artist. Oh no, no. Yeah, shameless shout-out. Cool, cool. Um, but yeah, so yeah, I just went there yesterday and they've you know tuned it up so it's in as good of shape as it could be. I have this little, I guess this Diodario tuner here, and they use these tuners. I forget the actual name, maybe it says on here. Grand Tune. They're German-built tuners. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great tuners. That's cool. Awesome. Yeah, I've not seen those. Yeah, yeah. I don't believe I have those on my uh I got the wave release. Oh, very nice. Which are just fine. They're great tuners, they're awesome. No complaints. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's funny. Uh I haven't had too many issues with guitar tuning in that respect of like the actual tuners failing. Right. But I do find you know, coming for banjo, I'm just like trying to entertain your streams, like, God, I'm just just never ends. You just keep going, and yeah. So I have a lot to get used to. Okay, so um, and then yeah, what uh guitar woods, do you know what what back and sides and all that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So it's a mahogany back and sides and then uh spruce top. Gotcha. Yep, sitka spruce. Um, yeah, and as far as strings, I don't know if these are actually the strings on there because they put new ones on the shop, but usually I play on the excesses, the Diodario XS mediums. Yeah, yeah, the phosphor bronze, I believe. Oh, okay. That might be the same I got here. So that's a 13 1356.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. That's that's probably what I got on these, I think. Um that seems like a lot of people are going that way right now.
SPEAKER_01They're really great. I was kind of between those, and sometimes I'm on the road and I'll buy some elixirs because I really like those. But definitely as far as coded strings goes, I like the coded strings.
SPEAKER_00Cool, okay. Yeah, how often are you like, okay, well, I guess two questions. When you're on the road, yeah, how often are you changing strings?
SPEAKER_01Um, I do it depends. I think usually I try and make it through three shows between I change between changing strings. Yeah. But sometimes I break strings on stage, and then when I break a string on stage, I'll just throw a new set on the whole thing afterwards. Definitely. Um, do you deal with ascetic hands at all? Do you get like acid hands at all?
SPEAKER_00Oh, uh no, I I well, I don't think so. I think I do okay. Uh with with Banjo, it was always like every show just because it I feel like it they wear out so fast. So I had that experience. With guitar, I'm kind of still wondering what I like in terms of how long strings will last. I definitely I will not I don't kill strings in like a couple days. Like some people I know will be like a day or two and it's truly dead. So I don't have that. That's nice. But I haven't I I'll keep these on for I don't know, longer than a month, a month or two or something like that. Yeah. I think mostly because I just don't know what I like in terms of the sound. Because I'm like, put put a new set on, I'm like, okay, that sounds like that. Yeah. And then I play them, and it's like they change so gradually that over time I'm just like, I don't know, they sound like this now. So I think I just need more time to like uh I should probably A-B it a little bit more or like try to record it and see if I like it. So when you're not, for instance, playing on the road, like let's say you had a month, uh-huh, no gigs, but you wanted your guitar to sound as good as possible. Yeah. Because I know sometimes when I was playing more, if I had like a month off, I'd be like, I'm not gonna change strings because I'm just like whatever, I'll just who cares if it sounds a little dead, right? But let's just say hypothetically you wanted it to sound as good as possible at home. Are you still are you going like a week or something?
SPEAKER_01Like what's your probably uh probably like two to three weeks type thing. Like, I actually really like the sound of a somewhat dead guitar string on a guitar. Like, and the thing I really like about it is the amount of it gives you more control, I find. When you have brand new strings on, it's like super bright and usually a lot louder and stuff, which is great. Like great for a jam, it'll cut through a lot. But as far as like the actual tonal qualities of the guitar go, like I think that once the string is like really worn in and like not quite dead, but like getting there, like I think that it really that's where I want it to sound. Interesting. If I'm going in the studio, that's what I want my guitar to sound like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you say it probably gives you takes you about a week to get there playing a bunch, or I mean shows is different, but definitely.
SPEAKER_01I'd say if I'm playing a bunch, probably about a week. If I'm not playing so much on the guitar, maybe a little bit longer. Yeah, but yeah, I I do find that that's kind of the sweet spot. It's changing strings isn't necessarily a sound thing, is it is more like a necessity, so I don't break a string.
SPEAKER_00Yes, right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Definitely, which means I mean, I you know, I don't think uh there's a spectrum of what this means, but like when you guys are playing, you're you're playing pretty hard. I mean, you're sometimes that people can take that to mean like you're playing too hard, but like you're you're giving it some some force, you know.
SPEAKER_01Definitely so, and it's like it depends on what kind of stuff we're playing to and stuff like that, but definitely when playing live, especially playing plugged in too, I find myself maybe playing a little bit harder than I would if I were working a if I was working a mic, I feel like that allows you to be a lot more dynamic than like when you're plugged in, which is it's just a nature of the beast thing, though. Like playing so many different venues all over the place, dealing with like sometimes you have a 10-minute line check, sometimes you have an hour-long line check, you know. It just really depends, but it's like having that consistency, I find, is like the most important thing playing live. Totally. Then like I'll sacrifice a little bit of dynamics and a little bit of tone to have like consistency and know what I'm getting messed up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right, which seems like that's the that's the vibe. That's what people are are getting into. What's your uh this is so out of my wheelhouse? What's your what's your um like plugged in setup? Like what are you playing into?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I played through this uh thing called a line six podgo. Okay, and it's pretty amazing. Uh Josiah Nelson of the Mountain Grass Unit, he's their fiddle player. Uh, I bought it from him actually. It was his old pedal board. So uh thankfully he's helped me kind of trick it out. But what I have is I have an impulse response in there. So it's a blend of a microphone tone and my pickup tone. So it's a blend of the two, and it sounds like an acoustic guitar.
SPEAKER_00Sounds pretty real. I've heard some stuff on YouTube videos and does not sound like it does not sound like plugged in used to sound.
SPEAKER_01Yes, definitely. I feel like as technology goes, like it's gotten so much better over the past few years. And so I have that, and I run through a parametric um EQ, and I also have like a simple EQ as well. So I have a lot of EQ and stuff going on, but it's definitely taken a lot of time to kind of get locked in. But the really great thing about those two is they're multi-effect boards as well. So I have all sorts of different things. I can add distortion, I can do like a law, I can do a bunch of reverb and stuff like boost pedal. They also have an expression pedal that's built into it itself. So if I want to do like, like I've definitely modeled some Billy Strings pedals and stuff and use the expression pedal to like make it go like wah wah wah wah wah wah wah like that kind of thing. So it's really cool for that reason, and they're only like 600 bucks new.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those are not the I mean the I I've done a little bit of that. I think I've got um I've got a line six helix for for stuff that I've only used for electric. Um, and so I've I've messed around with the impulse response for amps and stuff like that. But like even that was is a little outdated now, and it's like I feel like uh even the stuff that's not the most cutting edge, whatever, is still so so many leagues ahead of where we were like five years ago, 10 years ago, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01So it's crazy listening to like some old bluegrass videos from like the early 2000s of people plugged in. It's like wow, like it's kind of wild that that was the standard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's brutal. Yeah, I remember hearing something, it was like uh it was this is a great fox, and it was like, you know, I could never hope, you know, this is this is me punching up. Um but it was yeah, it was like a um one of those like mega jams where it was like 20 people on stage, you know, last set of the night, whatever it was, and everybody was plugged in, and it was it was honestly hilarious. It was like I I had to laugh because it was like you know, you could hear every note that everybody was playing, all equally the exact same volume, none of which sounded like real instruments. It was it was really crazy. Uh and I think for for the for a couple years I really checked out and it was just like the idea of plugging in an instrument. I I can't even think about that anymore. But in the last like couple of years, it's it's changed so much that I'm pretty I'm pretty open to the idea. Um so if anyone I think this might even have a pickup in it, anyway. You know, it would take me a while to really get uh acquainted with that world. So uh last thing, yeah, the pick.
SPEAKER_01The pick. What are we working with pick? Yeah, so this is a blue chip stp 40. 40, okay, wow. Yes, very good. Um, yeah, I was talking uh with a good pal Troy Boone, who um you've played in bands in Troy. Yes, indeed. Um, you know, I was visiting him in Johnson City a couple months ago, and we're talking a lot about picks and talking a lot about the right hand and you know, kind of the restrope thing and getting as much control as possible. And I was playing with bigger picks, thicker picks, and he was like, he's like, let me do an experiment, like let me show you how I play rhythm on a smaller, lighter pick versus a thicker one. And it I guess the moral of the story is it's a lot harder to have control with a thick pick and a bigger pick than a smaller pick. Yeah, and at first I was like, Oh, I don't think I can play with a small pick. Like it's so you know, there's like a lot less points of contact, uh, or I guess it's just a lot smaller, it's a lot you have to be a lot more accurate. But it's forced me to change my playing, play a little bit more delicately and think a little bit more about what I'm doing. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It's um because that's really that's thin.
SPEAKER_00I mean, 40, I don't even know. I didn't even know, honestly, they made I think I had I got the TP48 for a while, which I think is what Brian's using a lot of the time. And but and so anyway, I say that to mean like that's that's quite a sound you're getting out of that with that pick, which is a cool thing to hear. Like uh that it's really I don't know, it's it's about the combination of things, not so much like, well, if you use this pick, it'll just sound like this. It's like you gotta play a certain way, you gotta have the guitar's a certain thing, the pick's a certain thing. Um definitely yeah, that's cool. That's very interesting. That's a good thing to keep an open mind about because you know, certainly if anyone had asked me before this moment, I'd be like, there's no way you just play on a fan pick, like there's no way, you know. But it's no, it sounds great, man.
SPEAKER_01I I came up playing with uh fender heavy picks. Nice. So like I feel like it's almost like a throwback to that a little bit, not quite the teardrop, but it's like definitely has a little bit more give, which is nice. It's like you can't lay into it so much. Sure, oh it's like not gonna work, so it forces you to play a little quieter, which I like about it. How about you? What kind of pick?
SPEAKER_00This is actually, and and I should mention this because at some point I had reviewed other token picks that I decided not to use, but actually now I am using a token pick again. So this is the B160, which is the if you think like the um I think it's the same size as the TP blue chip ones, uh same like uh yeah, like triangle, same size, right? It's not as big as the TAD ones, and it's 1.5 millimeters, and it's the amber one. I tried the green ones, the Toronto, which I liked. Uh but then I was like, eh, I kind of like the blue chip a little better. Uh because I got what is it, the TP60, which I guess is yeah, which is the same thickness, but the blue chip one. And then uh I can't remember who was uh somebody had recommended my friend Tyler Stegel, that's how it was, recommended the the amber one. And uh it's great, it kind of has everything I like about the different combinations of picks. Sometimes I find the blue chip um the heavier ones, you it doesn't feel like an immediate attack, it feels like almost like uh somebody somebody uh I saw a comment that it has like almost like a rubbery attack, like the thicker ones, you don't immediately just get sound out of it, right? When I was playing the thinner one, the TB48, I did kind of get that immediate attack. Um but this one being is it's thicker, but you do kind of get the immediate thing out of it, which is nice. Right. Um so it's interesting. I'm still still trying a bunch of different picks because I have such a it's like I'll I'll work on my technique for a while and I'll be like, well, this is how I play, and this pick sounds great. And then I'll kind of like improve my right-hand technique or something will change and be like, okay, well, that pick was really good at compensating for this problem that I have. Yes. But now that I don't really have that problem as bad anymore, I don't need that pick to compensate. So now I'll do, you know, so I'm not always like jumping pick to pick, but certainly I'm like open to new picks all the time because there's I'm so far from being like set in the way that I play, right? Like I'm I don't have like I'm trying to play like one specific way now, but I definitely don't have like years of experience of like playing rhythm a certain way with a certain pick, whatever. So it's I think it's gonna be quite a while before I sell settle on it. But the token amber ones are pretty pretty sick. Yeah, yeah, token picks are awesome. They're cool, they're they're they're swooping the nation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they are. It's crazy. It was like they popped up at IBM A last year. I was like, who are these guys? And it's like now everyone's playing a token. Totally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I first got the idea from from uh Jake Workman. Oh, really? He's using the green ones, uh, which he likes, but uh yeah, they're cool.
SPEAKER_01Going back to the thick pick though, like Lincoln, I know plays like a tad 80 or something like that. I think so, yeah. And it's like it's amazing how like I find I can't play fast on those. Like it's like sluggish to like play speedy things and like for him to be able to play the way he does to take that thick is insane.
SPEAKER_00It blows my mind a little bit, and I think I mean I I assumed because that's why I'd started playing the one that Brian uh uses the TP48, because I was like, Well, he's he plays fast, yeah. He sounds good, I'll sound good too, you know. Like all the classes, yeah, whatever. You try stuff because other people like it. But um it was actually it was Jake's recommendation, not recommendation, but just he was saying because he uses the 1.5 millimeter, and I was like, Well, I mean, it doesn't really get faster than that, you know. Literally, you know, and it's like for and because for a while, and I think to a certain extent I am still kind of trying to emulate what Jake does with his right hand, uh, at least some of the time. I was like, okay, well, let's let's see if I can do all the things he's doing and see if that kind of works for me. And I can see how that works. I think obviously everyone's got to do something a little bit different, um, but at the moment it's working for the for the time being. But but yeah, it is like I I think one thing is I'm a little more susceptible to like if I do get tension, if if things tend tense up, it's less forgiving to have the thick pick, right? Like I get stuck a lot easier. If everything's like cool, if everything's going the way it should, then I don't notice it being a heavy pick.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_00But the moment I start tensing up, I'm like, oh, this is heavy. You know, so you know, it's it's kind of there are just so many factors. There's way too many things to kind of do the math on to be like, okay, well, as long as I play perfectly, this pick is great. Well, is that the best strategy? I don't know. Um is that always how I'm gonna be playing? Exactly. Yeah, it's like actually almost definitely not. So yeah, so who knows? That's maybe not the best uh plan, but it's working so far. Oh, right on. Um, cool, man. Well, uh, folks can find you, I know, out on the road with Bronwyn. Yeah. Where else can they can they find you on online in some way? Or how would they uh show their devotion to you as their flat picking hero?
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Well, you can find me, you can find me on Instagram at Grant G-R-A-N-T Dreznick. It's pronounced Dresznick, spelled Dreznok.
SPEAKER_00I knew this, I knew this, and I I I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, but I keep hearing other people say Dreznok. I was like, yeah, I thought I had it right. I knew it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You got it, you got it. Yeah. So D-R-E-S-N-O-K guitar at Grant Dresnik Guitar on Instagram and you know, I'm on YouTube and just all sorts of different places. You can find me if you look hard enough. So sweet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and you know what? It won't be long before you'll have no choice but to know what Grant is up to. Oh, man. Uh let's play one more and then uh call it good. Um let's see. Anything, any other fiddle tunes or anything you've been kind of thinking about? Or shoot. We could do um, man, you want to do like Billy in the low ground or something like that? I like I love when people are like, oh, I guess we could. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what I want to play. Yeah, that's perfect. That's great. Sweet. Uh yeah, we'd you would do the honors. Uh oh, whoa.